Don’t Marry

Why Modern, Western Marriage Has Become A Bad Business Decision For Men

Catch 22


Catch 22
Post by Bachelor Will on May 20, 2005, 12:37am

As a 31 year old who has never been married, I feel like I am in a Catch 22.

There is a part of me that wants to get married and have children, but there is also the side of me that believes that it is a bad idea.

Basically, I would love to have the companionship of the right woman, but I also fear that most women get married because they want a lifestyle upgrade.

For those guys that have been married and are now divorced, when you look back at your courtship with your ex, do you see any red flags that you overlooked?

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Re: Catch 22
Post by CuriePoint on May 20, 2005, 8:45am

- The fact that she f****ed everything that was male at the college we attended together

- The fact that she was engaged to a pre-med student who lived three hours away

- The fact that she ended the engagement after meeting me because “she didn’t want to have to be second-fiddle to other people for her husband’s attention”

- A tremendously pompous and over-bearing future mother-in-law

- A thoroughly p*ssy-whipped and cringing future father-in-law

- A brother of hers that was just shy of being a convicted felon

- Her casual drug usage

- Her drinking

- Probably lots more that I can’t think of. I was a stupid 19 year old back then.

As someone else had said elsewhere, don’t judge your future on what she says. Watch with intent what she does, because words are cheap. Actions truly do speak louder than words.

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Re: Catch 22
Post by Never Again on May 20, 2005, 9:21am

Bachelor Will,
Women pick the best provider they can find generally. It is rare to find one that picks a partner for marriage or true love regardless of financial gain, future earnings, inheritance etc.

Mine picked me for inheritance and work ethic. I successfully countered her w/ my inheritance by not commingling or trans mutating money from inheritance to a community account even after an extensive Forensic Evaluation.

Remember they are predators of the financial aspects. They know that money is their ultimate monkey and need for it will determine their decisions heavily. They will obfuscate, prevaricate, deceive you into thinking it’s other aspects but in the end it is about money and especially in divorce. They will go after whatever assets there are period.

There are some ways to mitigate your exposure. Anything you make during your marriage is presumed community except, inheritance, gifts, bequests. The BURDEN is on the person with the separate assets, gifts, inheritance to prove it is separate. Keep the info secured somewhere safe. Mine took some of it and then I had to reorder some records. They are cunning and devious when they know it’s over and want revenge.

Red Flags may not necessarily be apparent. They are usually the ones The Author has succinctly elucidated to.

Women change the most in reality men change very little. In the end they will sacrifice your welfare, dreams, success, children, business to accomplish their selfish desires etc…

It is not about you only what they can get from you. Keep it separate and their true colors will manifest. Commingle it and you’re a Host Organism and a target.

read the comments on this board they are form men all over and they are being honest here. Have fun enjoy each other but never compromise what you’re not willing to give up.l.. Plenty of women out there who have assets nowadays and will share if you’re worthy. In my late 40′s and I’m Dating A lot…..

Lots of woman have homes, assets etc in my age group now. They still bang good and less BS. Now when I date them and talk with them I tell them I will not even date a woman who does not have the same or similar assets. No point.. It is about money … at least in Los Angeles…
HTH…..
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Re: Catch 22
Post by khankrumthebulgar on May 20, 2005, 11:25am

Bachelor Will the aforementioned advice is good sound advice. Here are some thoughts of a 49 year old twice married, twice Divorced Male. Father of 5 and Grandfather. Meaning I made have made dumb mistakes but I also have some life experience. Reality is this Women who have a Religious focus, or come from a Conservative Religious background are least likely to be “Players”. But they are subject to the influence of our culture. Our Women are being manipulated emotionally to see Men as abusers and “Oppressors”. This is what happened to my first wife. She two years ago acknowledged that I was very affectionate, ethical, virile, loving Father. She said she had an out of control midlife crisis. This happens to many Women around the late thirties.

Women are emotional creatures. Your likelihood of success increases with a Woman from a more Male Friendly foreign culture. Asia, Eastern Europe, and Latin America. Take measures to mitigate damages to yourself. Prenup, no commingling of funds, separate accounts etc. Have no more children than you are willing to pay child support for. I am sorry to tell you this but you must be a realist. You can go single and have meaningful relationships. Refuse to marry American or Western Women they are poisoned by the Feminist culture.

Test her before you make any long term commitments. If she acts like a Princess or moans about “Entitled to” dump her immediately. Women dump Men for a “Better Deal” regardless of the damage to Men or cost to their children. This is the reality of our current culture.
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Re: Catch 22
Post by DB on May 20, 2005, 1:59pm

Quote:Remember they are predators of the financial aspects. They know that money is their ultimate monkey and need for it will determine their decisions heavily. They will obfuscate, prevaricate, deceive you into thinking it’s other aspects but in the end it is about money and especially in divorce. They will go after whatever assets there are period.

Perhaps I am naive or an incurable optimist, but I think many women are not as calculating as you state, at least not initially, but end up doing all the things you describe.

My wife was always bad with money, but I didn’t know that when we married. Like most people who are always in debt, she thought a man with no debt, a paid-off house, and many different assets should be able to afford anything and everything.

I paid all basic expenses, gave her $2500 a month to spend on whatever she wanted, and didn’t ask her to spend ANY of her earnings on household expenses, vacations, air fare, etc. She still kept running up debts. When she got a $220,000 inheritance, it was gone in four years, with nothing to show for it.

She never got over the fact that I wouldn’t commingle assets. She said to me in counseling “I thought when we got married we’d throw our hat into the ring together–you know, pool our assets.” I pointed out that she came to the marriage with no assets and substantial debt, which I immediately paid off for her.

I honestly never felt she was a scheming b*tch, but rather had grossly unrealistic expectations. People with little money ALWAYS think those of us that aren’t in debt can afford ANYTHING.

She is now a lot better with money and has no credit cards. The guy she lives with makes $60K a year and has two teenage kids. They were planning to marry this summer but I think he’s starting to realize there’s no benefit for him.

My ex is selling the house she bought with her settlement for a big profit. She is going to buy a cheaper house in a safer neighborhood and bank the rest of the money. I asked her if she was going to put Bob’s name on the deed. Throw her hat into the ring with him, so to speak. She said no. I was hoping to see a trace of embarrassment, but I didn’t.

I don’t like name-calling as I see it as unproductive.

This is just the way women are. They expect it, see it as their due, and the courts back them up. Thus the “marriage strike” that men are on.

DB

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Re: Catch 22
Post by The Author on May 20, 2005, 3:28pm

I reiterate that actions speak louder than words. Everyone WANTS to save….learn a musical instrument…..run a marathon. But few actually bother to move past the talk.

Here are some red flags that may work for you. (And please read the disclaimer twice)
https://dontmarry.wordpress.com/2007/05/13/dating-red-flags/

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Re: Catch 22
Post by The Author on May 20, 2005, 3:32pm

> Now when I date them and talk with them I tell them I will not even date a woman who does not have the same or similar assets.

How do the one’s with no assets react to this? And how about the ones who do have something to lose? I have a feeling a 40 something can get away with saying this much easier than a 20 or 30 something. (Without being called a selfish jerk, etc)
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Re: Catch 22
Post by The Author on May 20, 2005, 3:35pm

> I asked her if she was going to put Bob’s name on the deed. Throw her hat into the ring with him, so to speak. She said no. I was hoping to see a trace of embarrassment, but I didn’t.

What a brilliant touche! Thanks for sharing, DB.
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Re: Catch 22
Post by Never Again on May 20, 2005, 4:07pm

DB The Author,
They are FAR more sophisticated than you think today. I’m not paranoid either. I have talked with young women in their 20′s and I’m capable of getting PUNG from them as well. They tell me if their honest that they would drive me crazy and I would Kill them…. So they know what they are doing….

Sometimes they do DEFAULT into it but they are sophisticated and get plenty of help form their fem friends and greedy Divorce attorney’s…, Ever see a Divorce attorney on here disagreeing w/ what we pontificate or espouse NO because they know it true…
Civil Courts are so Broad and allow the harassment and legal EXTORTION… Trust me BTDT and still doing it and winning but having to spend to defend.

Stop protecting women and defending them when they truly could care less about you once they’re done with you. it is a lie and most men have bought into it.. It was different in the past but not that way anymore.. At least not in Los Angeles where I roam… ALL men here know and steer clear of the pitfalls and when they get taken they learn and don’t usually do it again….

Your call your life…
As far as when I confront the younger ones they usually hang their heads, look to the right or left indication they have been caught in a lie or deceit.. they know the gig is up and time to move on… Women are more relaxed in sex in their 40′s and can actually have more fun… No more mysteries and there is either chemistry or not… No as much BS as w. women in their 20′s or 30′s too much trouble for me to put up w/.
they talk dirtier too in their 40′s Love em’

remember Verbal is the form of communication most effective other than touch… visual doesn’t play as much of a role once the act has started. The human brain prefers auditory stimulation after the visual EROS is triggered….

resist all you want or process what the men of experience have elucidated. They are right on the money and know their poop….

HTH…Off to S. Carolina to get some PUNG for the weekend…Love that Southern Draw…..
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Re: Catch 22
Post by Lee on May 21, 2005, 1:55pm

What does ‘PUNG’ and ‘BTDT’ mean?

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Re: Catch 22
Post by Lee on May 21, 2005, 2:13pm

Quote:Perhaps I am naive or an incurable optimist, but I think many women are not as calculating as you state, at least not initially, but end up doing all the things you describe.

In the end, what is the difference?
If she is malicious and does all the things described, you lose your money.
If she is careless or stupid, and does all the things described, you lose your money.

It doesn’t matter if it is done deliberately or ‘accidentally’, the result and the action is the same.
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Re: Catch 22
Post by Never Again on May 21, 2005, 2:32pm

Lee,

PUNG is Vietnamese for “Tail”

BTDT is “Been There Done That”

HTH……
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Re: Catch 22
Post by khankrumthebulgar on May 23, 2005, 1:37pm

The truth is that Women Marry for Resources (Money) in the past Land or a Title. Lady So and So etc. Women today are more money oriented than ever, they want to Marry a Lifestyle. The Man in question is secondary as to what the Man can provide them. This is the mentality. The First thing Women ask in a social setting is what you do? Then what kind of car do you drive? And then what kind of Real Estate (house) do you own? I asked one recently if she required Financial Statements? She was offended not as much as I was though.

I asked her why I should disclose my assets? If I have a Managed Asset account that requires a minimum of $1 million dollars liquidity what business was it of hers? And as to my transportation Vehicles depreciate. I prefer to have my money working for me. I am tired of Gold Diggers of all ages who don’t care about a Man’s character or what kind of Father he would make. Nor do they care about your morals. Basically I have a very low opinion of Women today.
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Re: Catch 22
Post by The Author on May 23, 2005, 4:06pm

For arguments sake….a smart woman should ask what real estate you own before asking about car. (Perhaps even your job…b/c plenty of doctors are broke….etc)

Car should last on gold-diggers list of indicators. Like a Rolex. Any bum can buy a $1000 watch and live in his mother’s basement. A homeless man can practically finance a new car. Car has lost all value of wealth rating. Some can’t afford the gasoline of their Lexus.
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Re: Catch 22
Post by me on May 23, 2005, 7:52pm

“Women pick the best provider they can find generally.”

in English:

“Women are prostitutes generally.”

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Re: Catch 22
Post by Never Again on May 23, 2005, 8:06pm

That’s another way of expressing that they are opportunists in EVERY way…
That’s why I NEVER introduce them to my real friends, business contacts etc… They are always looking for a better deal nowadays… use to not be that way there is a general erosion of ethics, integrity, family values, standards, self justified and rationalized selfish ME ME prophecy, sacrifice is something of the past I believe for them…They are in it for themselves and see men as a means/vehicle/host organism for making their dreams come true.

We make their dreams come true, they destroy ours

The horror and irony is profound and visceral….
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Re: Catch 22
Post by DB on May 24, 2005, 12:14pm

I don’t have a problem with women wanting to marry a husband who will provide them with a good lifestyle or standard of living.

The problem comes when THEY DON’T HOLD UP THEIR END OF THE BARGAIN.

It really shouldn’t be so hard to be nice to your husband, be agreeable to sex on most if not all days, be happy with what he provides you and not always wanting more, and to stay in about the same physical condition as when the two of you met.

This strikes most men as a reasonable trade, yet they seldom get it.

DB
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Re: Catch 22
Post by khankrumthebulgar on May 24, 2005, 1:39pm

The Sad truth is that my two marriages had a verbal contract but a written contract cannot be enforced. Family Court Judges and Case Law has sided with Women against Men. Prenups are routinely voided by Judges. Today a report has been made that a Man is being sued for child support who had a contract of non-support for his Sperm at a Sperm Bank.

That’s right a Sperm Bank. This is just plain nuts. Women hold all the cards in terms of relationships. And they have co-opted the Govt. to support their oppression and demonizing of Men with the VAWA. Men with children have no Shelters to go to in this country. If you marry the wrong Woman or if she simply changes her mind about you, your life will be a train wreck. Don’t do it.
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Re: Catch 22
Post by The Author on May 24, 2005, 9:22pm

Do you have a link to the “Sperm Bank Child Support” article?
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Re: Catch 22
Post by HappilySingle on May 24, 2005, 9:54pm

Quote:Do you have a link to the “Sperm Bank Child Support” article?

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/05140/507736.stm

It’s amazing to what lengths some women will go to pass responsibilities for their choices onto someone else.
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Re: Catch 22
Post by summerset on May 27, 2005, 8:47am

after reading all of your postings I think I see the problem, you are all blaming women for YOUR mistakes.

it is so easy to say “women are evil, women only want your money…blah blah blah” point that finger at yourself.

here is what you need to do (or questions you need to ask yourself) :

1. figure out what it is that blinded you to this persons character flaws (was it the fact that she talked to you and slept with you that caused you to overlook this?)

2. Learn how to see women as people instead of sex objects with feelings and emotions, if she makes all the bells and whistles go off *run away* do not pursue her!!

3. paying off someones debit or dating women who are unable to take care of themselves does not make you a protector it makes you a “meal ticket” going out on expensive dates is totally unnecessary unless it involves the opera or symphony.

4. choose women who are mature, emotionally stable, financially stable and who know how to handle responsibility. *you are obviously here because you date women who are:

a. 18 – 20ish *she acts so mature and is so cute*

b. emotionally damaged *the entire world is against her and only you can save her, don’t forget to wear your superman suit under your clothing just in case she needs you to rescue her during the date.

c. active drug users *things will come up missing from your house or apartment*

d. women with children who have different fathers *run from this drama as fast as you can*

e. women with weight issues *a few pounds overweight is ok, she may lose it. but is she is 400 pounds or more…head for the hills*

f. women who are friends with all of her ex boyfriends *no one should have to put up with that, plus it means she is not able to live in the here and now!! she will always remain in the past!!.. that relationship is dead and gone…Move on down the road. ..send a xmas card once a year but do not hang out with them (the same applies to you guys, dump these ex girlfriends/bed buddies ect…they hold you back and are a distraction…use your hand or focus on your relationship)

g. if you have issues with sexuality or emotional issue or monetary issues or drug and alcohol issues during the dating process chances are you will have them after you are married, if something bothers you during the dating process address the problem and see if it goes away. if it doesn’t run the other way!!!

h. you will never find the perfect woman, date women who are on your level, dating women who are trophy wives will cost you a bundle ( on the flip side, dating a plain jane nature freak will drive you crazy, tofu should be against the law and herbal medicine is over rated unless you happen to be a hill billy from Kentucky)
*I have to admit that I enjoyed being a baby doll but I was in love with the guy*

to wrap this up let me address this question:

“Basically, I would love to have the companionship of the right woman, but I also fear that most women get married because they want a lifestyle upgrade”

Response:

there is no such thing as “The Right Woman.” life is a gamble, you toss the dice and take a chance. but it is also about choices…if you pick the playboy bunny instead of the girl next door you have only yourself to blame when the bunny divorces you or sleeps with the poolboy, bagboy,car dealership salesman, ect.

Marriage is not about a lifestyle upgrade, marriage is about children and families!! If you do not want children do not get married.

Marriage will not cement your relationship
marriage will not fix your social problems
marriage will not make you seem sexy in other women’s eyes
marriage will not help your social life

marriage was created to protect children, women who had children and were married to the father of the child had some recourse if the father decided to leave her, his FAMILY would help her and her child so they did not have to live out on the street.

badda bing badda boom thats all!!

hope this helps and remember this, that hot woman who gives you a boner will drain your bank account if you let her

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Re: Catch 22
Post by you on May 27, 2005, 9:47am

ding! ding!

let’s get ready to rumble!
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Re: Catch 22
Post by Simpson on May 27, 2005, 9:51am

Ah, the old – “it’s all your fault” . . .

Quote:after reading all of your postings I think I see the problem, you are all blaming women for YOUR mistakes.

Spoken like an expert woman. What are you, 20 years old? Go back and re-read this forum, because you missed the principle points of the Author’s article and postings here.
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Re: Catch 22
Post by True on May 27, 2005, 10:59am

May 27, 2005, 8:47am, summerset wrote:after reading all of your postings I think I see the problem, you are all blaming women for YOUR mistakes.

it is so easy to say ” women are evil, women only want your money…blah blah blah” point that finger at yourself.

here is what you need to do (or questions you need to ask yourself) :

1. figure out what it is that blinded you to this persons charactor flaws (was it the fact that she talked to you and slept with you that caused you to overlook this?)

And why should it be the man who is unilaterally punished by the court system if he chooses poorly, while the woman receives government (i.e. tax-funded) support for choosing poorly? This only means that responsibility is expected of men, but not women.

Quote:
2. Learn how to see women as people instead of sex objects with feelings and emotions, if she makes all the bells and whistles go off *run away* do not pursue her!!

One, it would behoove you not to make such flagrant generalizations and project *your* prejudices onto men; it makes you look incredibly disingenuous. Two, many men are indirectly following just that general advice: we refuse to have anything to do with women altogther. The best solution to the “woman problem” is abstinence.

Quote:
3. paying off someones debit or dating women who are unable to take care of themselves does not make you a protector it makes you a “meal ticket” going out on expensive dates is totally unnecessary unless it involves the opera or symphony.

Quite right. So we stop doing it – take a look at the name of this website, in case it has eluded you. The marriage strike is 22% and growing among men.

Quote:
4. choose women who are mature, emotionally stable,financially stable and who know how to handle responsibility. *you are obviously here because you date women who are:

a. 18 – 20ish *she acts so mature and is so cute*

b. emotionally damaged *the entire world is against her and only you can save her, don’t forget to wear your superman suit under your clothing just in case she needs you to rescue her during the date.

c. active drug users *things will come up missing from your house or apartment*

d. women with children who have different fathers *run from this drama as fast as you can*

e. women with weight issues *a few pounds overweight is ok, she may lose it. but is she is 400 pounds or more…head for the hills*

f. women who are friends with all of her ex boyfriends *no one should have to put up with that, plus is means she is not able to live in the here and now!! she will always remain in the past!!.. that relationship is dead and gone…Move on down the road. ..send a xmas card once a year but do not hang out with them (the same applies to you guys, dump these ex girlfriends/bed buddies ect…they hold you back and are a distraction…use your hand or focus on your relationship)

g. if you have issues with sexuality or emotional issue or monetary issues or drug and alcohol issues during the dating process chances are you will have them after you are married, if something bothers you during the dating process address the problem and see if it goes away. if it doesn’t run the other way!!!

h. you will never find the perfect woman, date women who are on your level, dating women who are trophy wives will cost you a bundle ( on the flip side, dating a plain jane nature freak will drive you crazy, tofu should be against the law and herbal medicine is over rated unless you happen to be a hill billy from Kentucky)
*I have to admit that I enjoyed being a baby doll but I was in love with the guy*

Thank you again for your generalizations. They are duly noted. You beautifully exemplify and re-enforce the reason why I stay away from western women at all cost. If before I had doubts, you have once again made it crystal clear to me why I made the right decision.

Quote:
to wrap this up let me address this question:

“Basically, I would love to have the companionship of the right woman, but I also fear that most women get married because they want a lifestyle upgrade”

Response:

there is no such thing as “The Right Woman.” life is a gamble, you toss the dice and take a chance. but it is also about choices…if you pick the playboy bunny instead of the girl next door you have only yourself to blame when the bunny divorces you or sleeps with the poolboy,bagboy,car dealership salesman,ect.

Marriage is not about a lifestyle upgrade, marriage is about children and families!! If you do not want children do not get married.

Marriage will not cement your relationship
marriage will not fix your social problems
marriage will not make you seem sexy in other womens eyes
marriage will not help your social life

marriage was created to protect children, women who had children and were married to the father of the child had some recourse if the father decided to leave her, his FAMILY would help her and her child so they did not have to live out on the street.

badda bing badda boom thats all!!

hope this helps and remember this, that hot woman who gives you a boner will drain your bank account if you let her

Women today choose Big Brother as the surrogate husband. When they are dissatisfied with their current one, they divorce him and take his children and his possessions – even if the woman earned none of the assets and contributed little to the marriage (which isn’t to say that the average woman behaves like this, but simply to point out that women have this choice thanks to the 800 lbs gorilla by her side, AKA “Big Brother” – whereas men do not). Women receive the government’s full support for this and the man is left fending for himself alone (and almost always loses). This isn’t what I would call “fair.”

So tell me, why on earth would I want to gamble my life away in a system that hates me? That’s not about wanting to have a family and raise children (which I do); it’s simply about not being ignorant and shortsighted and signing my life away to the whim of a woman and hoping that if I jump through hoops as she commands me and act as her lapdog then hopefully she will take pity with me and not feed me to the dogs. Because you know, all in all that sounds rather unappealing to me – even if it means I must forego sex
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Re: Catch 22
Post by khankrumthebulgar on May 31, 2005, 4:19pm

I wish I could be more positive about Women. If you are a working Man and they come from Money you will get nothing in a Divorce. I had a business Partner who married a wealthy Woman. She left him for an employee in our business who we had hired, who was married and had kids. He married a lifestyle. She married for a boy toy. Demi and Ashton Kutcher comes to mind. And she was 15 years his Senior.

I have seen so many woman financially wreck their husbands and families. Even Professional Men have been severely damaged financially. Type Fred Reed into google and go to his web site. Fred has some interesting advice for us Gents. He makes a lot of sense.
Sadly our culture makes no sense. To raise kids in it today is almost irresponsible. Our schools have become indoctrination centers. And our Government is corrupt beyond repair. The best you can do is cope and try to find happiness where you can.

Our Author is merely demanding in his dissertation equity between the genders. Isn’t that what the FemNags claimed they wanted? It is no longer it is about revenge.
Staying Mad at Men and hating us. Why live with a coiled Viper waiting to strike out at you? You don’t have to. Would you pay the price of a Ferrari for a Yugo? Of course not, then why buy a Lifetime of AW who will abuse you for far more when you can get a sweet Foreign Woman for a lot less. There are at least a couple of billion to choose from.
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Re: Catch 22
Post by khankrumthebulgar on Jun 1, 2005, 10:35am

Hard Core Gender Feminists have actually called Housewives Prostitutes. They are now actually acting like one. My Mother never married my Father with the expectation of marrying a “Lifestyle”. Funny thing is my sister who is a Feminist did. She and I are no longer on speaking terms. In fact I told her to not come to my funeral if I die before she does. Don’t bother. Last time I talked to her was the last time you will hear my voice in your lifetime I told her. Consider me dead, you are to me. She is a Model, has two daughters one who model for the Ford Agency. She went to the University of Colorado in Boulder.

She is horrified that I have a Step Son a Marine, and a Son who is an Army Ranger. She blames me for raising overly Masculine Aggressive Sons. I take pride in that fact. I introduced my sons to the Martial Arts at an early age, then guns next. All but my youngest have fired Semi Auto Military rifles by age 8. They have fired a SKS, a AK-47, FN FAL rifle, and a MI in .308. And fired semi auto pistols in .45, 9 mm, 38 special +, .357. .44 magnum revolver Ruger Blackhawk.

Young males need to have their aggressive instincts cultivated and disciplined. Discretion, discipline, courage, virtue, morality need to be instilled in them. That is what I have done with my Two older Sons. My youngest I have had minimal contact with because of a Divorce. His Mother has turned him into a little girly boy. She thought I was too aggressive and tough on my older two sons.
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Re: Catch 22
Post by Never Again on Jun 1, 2005, 1:42pm

Krank,

your on it !

Of course your right and of course this is the actual and natural progression of ALL societies mankind has ever known. History proves this irrefutably….

Men did build this world and our current social attitude is harming Men and their lifestyles far greater than ever in the past. It is about MONEY lifestyle, HOOKUPS w/ connections for the women not the men… Employing and using their administrative tools to their advantage…

Like Plato and Socrates said.. The older they get the more they realize that woman are a waste of time due to their demands and drama…..
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Re: Catch 22
Post by The Author on Jun 1, 2005, 8:59pm

Do you have these quotes from Plato and Socrates ?
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Re: Catch 22
Post by The Author on Jun 1, 2005, 9:00pm

khankrumthebulgar, How is your relationship with the 2 adult sons you raised?
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Re: Catch 22
Post by khankrumthebulgar on Jun 2, 2005, 10:04am

My two Older Sons love and adore me. My oldest and I talk weekly on the phone. He his wife and my Grandson spent 2 weeks with me last Summer. We are very close. His Brother is coming in July to spend a month with me. He is going to New Zealand on a Karate Tournament he is studying Lima Lama Karate. I studied Kenpo, and Shotokan. My Uncle got his Black Belts in Judo and Karate at the Kodokan in Japan. He was a lifer in the Marine Corps and spent 15 years in Okinawa. He speaks fluent Japanese.

I practice Nichiren Shoshin Buddhism. Last April I took my Ghozaki or (Buddhist Vows). The Marriage strike is an effect of the causes we discuss on this forum. Mainly that Masculinity has been under assault, that Feminism and our culture has destroyed marriage and the family. That Gays are preferred to Straight Men. Gay Marriage is being promoted by the FemNags. If it were to become public policy we would lose our little legal standing as Fathers. Case Law will favor Gays over straights.

My Second Son is a Math Prodigy. As a Kindergartener he helped his older brother with his Calculus Homework. In most other ways he is a normal boy. He is 14 and we have a great relationship. I just don’t see him often enough. His STep Father is non-confrontational and more a negotiator which his Mother my ex prefers. She is not a disciplinarian as I was and still am. My oldest Two children are Parents themselves and follow my lead in the discipline of their 4 kids.

Step Son has a Son he is a Lance Corporal USMC 3rd Battalion 5th Marines. His brigade fought in Fallujah. He is rotated home now and may reup. He has a Warrior’s heart and loves battle. I worry about him but admire his courage and his devotion to Country.
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Re: Catch 22
Post by nameless1 on Jun 13, 2005, 10:05pm

Hey Guys, I think there are many generalizations going on here. The women you are describing definitely do exist, but I think its much less than you are all portraying it to be. You say that all women are emotional, which is true, we do think with our hearts, and men tend to put ALOT of emphasis on success, power and money. What about all the marriages that end because of something that the man did, such as cheating and breaking his vows? Just because the woman doesn’t lose money, doesn’t mean she isn’t losing her dignity, or her self worth. Once a woman feels betrayed emotionally, she may become so angry that of course she wants revenge, and she knows the only way to hurt him as much as he hurt her was to take his money. I am not saying its right, but people make mistakes, and what goes around always comes around. What I am trying to say is not all women deliberately say to themselves when they meet a man “im going t marry this sucker and then divorce him and take all his money” You guys have to take responsibility for your own actions during your marriage. If you disrespect your wife enough, there is a possibility she will want a divorce. The responsibility for a marriage to work relies on both people. I do not think that all women are manipulative, money hungry, gold diggers. I think they end up being portrayed as such because something goes wrong in their marriage, and they give up on each other, thus get a divorce. If you guys are so worried, then just get a pre-nup!
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Re: Catch 22
Post by Simpson on Jun 13, 2005, 11:14pm

For the ten-thousandth time a woman comes in here to tell us . . .

Quote:You guys have to take responsibility for your own actions during your marriage.

Don’t forget the classic . . .

Quote:The responsibility for a marriage to work relies on both people.

Get real woman. The state of marriage is not in such dismal shape because we guys forgot basic relationship advice. Methinks you are lacking in perspective of male reality.
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Re: Catch 22
Post by Knight40 on Jun 13, 2005, 11:41pm

Yes, the classic feminist lines, its all the mans fault.

Once again, I refer you to the AWS board where you can see how wonderful AW treat their men.

I have dated for many years just looking for the basics, and have not found one that was close to being marriageable.

Do not come in here and lecture us on how it is all the mans fault, and also that men are clueless in relationships, and how great many AW are.

You are talking to the wrong crowd, after all, we are living in and have experienced these women in our lives directly.

BTW, do not assume we are all married or divorced, many of us are not any of these, and for good reason.

All the more reason to marry a FW, at least they live in reality and have some type of coherent rationality in their thinking.

Many girls are not money hungry, indeed.

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Re: Catch 22
Post by HappilySingle on Jun 13, 2005, 11:56pm

Jun 13, 2005, 10:05pm, nameless1 wrote:If you guys are so worried, then just get a pre-nup!

Prenups are being thrown out with increasing (and frightening) regularity these days.

While this may seem a good thing to the women benefiting from this trend, it will increase the number of good men refusing to marry because they are unwilling to take the chance at losing everything in a divorce.

Yes, some men are scum. And when the wife divorces them, the man gets taken to the cleaners.

Unfortunately, some women are scum, but when this leads to divorce it’s again the man that gets financially screwed.

Unlike some in this forum, I do not believe that a woman’s place is barefoot, pregnant, and a slave to her husband. But many of today’s women have gone too far in the opposite direction, believing they are princesses and the most important person in the world. Women have to bring something of value to the relationship, and have to be willing to lose something if the relationship fails. As the laws stand now in much of the country, the woman has little to lose and much to gain by divorcing her husband.
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Re: Catch 22
Post by Knight40 on Jun 14, 2005, 12:05am

If you want a family, then a woman’s place is in the home.

If people do not want to do that, then do not have kids.

You can’t raise a family properly when nobody is at home, and the kids are in daycare with strangers.

Anyone thinks the problems with out of control and drugged kids is bad now, just wait a few more years……

Also, single mothers cannot raise kids alone, it takes a man to help too, something lost on feminazis.

Prenups are totally useless, judges throw them out all the time in court.

Not worth the paper that they are printed on most of them.

The divorce crime industry loves those little gems.

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Re: Catch 22
Post by TyHigs1 on Jun 14, 2005, 11:24am

One other thing, Nameless1. It is a fact that for any given year, 70-80% of all divorces are initiated by women. So are you trying to say that in the majority of those cases that it is the man that drives the woman to divorce? She couldn’t possibly be wanting out for reasons that are not caused by the man? Sure!

Also, why should men be subject to being penalized and women get rewarded for divorce? You dont think this is an incentive for women to file for divorce? If a person knows they can walk away at any point in time with child support, half of the wealthier spouse’s retirement, half of the equity in the house, and alimony if she makes less, then whats stopping her? Men do not have this option, not because women make less than men, but because Family Courts rarely reward men the same way they reward women.

And lets not forget that a wife can threaten her husband with false accusations of rape/child abuse/molestation/domestic violence in exchange for the man signing over ALL of his marital assets.

Yes, all women arent that way, but really, why would a guy take a chance? No one can predict the future, and with the selfishness of today’s women, it isnt as unlikely as you’d like to believe.
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Re: Catch 22
Post by nameless1 on Jun 14, 2005, 11:30am

I really dont have any experience with pre-nups, I didnt know they were useless, thank you for letting me know. I am not blaming men for divorces. I am not blaming anybody. All I am simply saying is that not all women are feminist nazis, and some deserve a chance. Obviously, this is the wrong forum for me, so I will not chat with you guys anymore, you do not have an open mind. You are dead set against marriage, and that is your choice, you have all the freedom in the world to choose to do what you want with your life…I understand nobody wants to be with a princess, I completely agree with all of you, that an adult should stand on their own two feet and take responsibility for themselves. I am all for it. i would never want to be in a marriage and have to ask my husband for money to buy a new outfit. I would go to the store and buy the outfit with my own money. All for equality here! Take care guys……
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Re: Catch 22
Post by summerset on Jun 14, 2005, 11:59am

where did you find your stats on the 70 percent of women, do you have a link showing that?

you did a lot of back peddling on your post too, looks like they are breaking you down

for the record

I never wanted to get married, I always thought it was a means of tying me down (id only do it if I got pregnant and even then I would look for a way out as quickly as possible.)

newsflash for ya, if you want someone to cook and clean up after you hire a maid or house keeper (one who cooks) all I ever wanted in life was a nice Condo (a nice 3 bedroom all to myself with lots of closets for my shoes and clothes) and a nice sports car

did I get it? NO

what I got was an Idiot who doesn’t pick up after himself leaves his dirty socks and under-ware all over my bedroom, stinks up my bathroom and thinks he is doing me a favor by jumping on top of me 2 times a week

*did I forget to mention that I have to deal with his fucking family, His mom is annoying and his father drives me up the fucking wall. (lets not even start with his fucking brothers and nosey ass sisters who go thru my closets)

I had more fun dating

(and if I ever get myself out of this mess I will never ever ever do it again)
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Re: Catch 22
Post by nameless1 on Jun 14, 2005, 2:58pm

I think men believe that we are getting a free ride and its just so easy to be with them…I would like to see the proof that 80% of all divorces are initiated by the woman. I know several women who are currently divorced. One of them found out her husband was gay after 15 years, the other one couldnt deal with her husband smoking pot every night, the other one made twice as much as her husband, but he wouldnt allow her to hire a cleaning lady for fifty bucks a week, the other one’s husband woke up one morning and told her he didnt feel like being married anymore and just left her with 2 children. I know plenty of women here at work, and yes, most of them are divorced, but I am nosy and I ask why. My boss is divorced: her husband was a sex addict who was having numerous affairs online with several women at a time, she desperately wanted to keep her marriage, and tried to stay, but he couldnt give up his sex life. My good friends from highschool are all in good healthy marriages thank god….no divorces yet. Then there is one couple I know that did end their relationship because the woman wanted more, she wanted him to make more money, and she appeared to be a princess, such as these women that are described in this forum. That is one couple that I know of where the woman initiated. I don’t know, I guess it all depends on your experience, but I would like to see or read proof that women are initiating divorce. Unless your husband is a frigin millionaire, its not easy to be alone, especially with children. Why would any woman want to get divorced and take on the burden of being a single mom? I may be delusional about eh minds of men, but you guys are also delusional about women!
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Re: Catch 22
Post by nameless1 on Jun 14, 2005, 3:09pm

I just cannot believe the amount of generalizations that are going on here. If you guys are so concerned about the laws, maybe you should try changing them to benefit men more….that would be fine with me. Who created these laws that favor women? Was it a woman who created these anti men laws? I dont think so guys….I think a man probably created these laws, so blame your own.
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Re: Catch 22
Post by nameless1 on Jun 14, 2005, 3:28pm

Also, why don’t you guys try to change these anti-man laws you keep talking about? I would be in favor for equal laws. ..but who actually created these laws that favor women? Has anyone found any proof of the initiation of these laws? I highly doubt that it was a woman who created the laws…So basically a man is the reason you all are being treated so unfairly.
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Re: Catch 22
Post by The Author on Jun 14, 2005, 6:49pm

> what I got was an Idiot who doesn’t pick up after himself leaves his dirty socks and underware all over my bedroom, stinks up my bathroom and thinks he is doing me a favor by jumping on top of me 2 times a week

Correction: What you CHOSE (out of all the MILLIONS of single men) “was an Idiot who doesn’t pick up after himself”. etc
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Re: Catch 22
Post by The Author on Jun 14, 2005, 6:53pm

>I would like to see the proof that 80% of all divorces are initiated by the woman

There is a link to this statistic right from the main essay.

===============
Divorce Myth 10: It is usually men who initiate divorce proceedings.

Fact: Two-thirds of all divorces are initiated by women. One recent study found that many of the reasons for this have to do with the nature of our divorce laws. For example, in most states women have a good chance of receiving custody of their children. Because women more strongly want to keep their children with them, in states where there is a presumption of shared custody with the husband the percentage of women who initiate divorces is much lower. Also, the higher rate of women initiators is probably due to the fact that men are more likely to be “badly behaved.” Husbands, for example, are more likely than wives to have problems with drinking, drug abuse, and infidelity.

Copyright 2002 by David Popenoe, the National Marriage Project at Rutgers University, New Brunswick, N.J.
===============

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Re: Catch 22
Post by TyHigs1 on Jun 14, 2005, 7:41pm

I think it’s funny.

I assume the women sign on here to chance or challenge men’s view of women. Unfortunately us men know the facts of the situation. So sitting up here are using your personal stories doesnt negate the fact that the majority of the time divorce rulings are against the man. It also doesnt help that emotion is the only basis that you have to dissuade us from our beliefs. Unfortunately, the men on these various forums are LOGICAL. We know the truth, both true empirical (subjective) experiences, from observations of friends and close relatives to celebrities and other famous cases, and also from case law.

Women are the majority of voters. It is in the best interest of judges and politicians to serve women’s interest. Also, no politician wants to be seen as ‘anti-woman’ in this PC age. This could mean the end of his career and his power base (cause power and money is what these men are after, not camaraderie with other men). These politicians glady sell out the 99% of other men for increased power. So yes, it is men that rule against other men, but it is done so that they are perceived as being pro-woman. These judges and politicians themselves are EXEMPT from such rulings because they are members of the elite.

So go ahead and say how all women arent this way and how all the men you’ve met are responsible. The men who’ve dated foreign women know the truth. Foreign women, even GERMAN women dont object to cooking and cleaning. The fact that you object to such things say that in a marriage, every single chore would be a conflict with your feminist beliefs. After all, a woman’s cooking for her man and children is unfair. It’s funny how up until feminazis brainwashed women these things were seen as loving and nurturing.

Avoid American women like the plague.

-TyHigs
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Re: Catch 22
Post by nameless1 on Jun 14, 2005, 10:43pm

Hey its me again. I dont think I ever said I dont cook for my man. On the contrary, I cook about twice a week and clean his condo almost daily. On top of that I work full time and try to stay physically fit and attractive for him and for myself, by going to the gym a few times a week. I do all of the food shopping, and the laundry. Does this make me a feminist? I never object to cooking for him, I keep a balance between cooking and sometimes eating out. I need to know exaclty what a feminist is in your opinion. I am AMerican. I am Italian. Third generation. While I don’t do everything my man tells me to do, I make my own decisions concerning my life and he makes his own decisions concerning his, I guess this is called Equality. Does this make me feminist? I enjoy cooking for him because I LOVE HIM. I enjoy seeing him happy after he eats, like a normal girl does when she LOVES someone. I am not doing it for any other reason than because he likes to eat and I like to make him happy. I am really confused. Also, thank you for reminding me about the link that 80% of divorces are initiated by women. But what we still dont know is WHY they are initiating their divorce proceedings, and we will never know WHY, because we are not living in their personal lives. Again, you guys are assuming they WANT to get divorced to live an easier life, and to ruin their husband’s life. You are assuming all women are vindictive and cunning. You are not considering the million other reasons they could be initiating divorce….
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Re: Catch 22
Post by Steve Sadlov on Jun 15, 2005, 1:24pm

Red flags – this is based on two actual failed courtships:

Courtship #1:

= Immaturity vs biological age
= Difficulty saying the words “I love you” to me
= In denial of / lying about a past sexual attack by an acquaintance (note – the mere existence of the past date rape may alone have been a disqualification unless substantial therapy had been undertaken – in this case, outright denial meant that therapy had never even been possible. I found out from one of her girl friends)
= Wanted to shack up without being engaged, let alone married

Courtship #2:

= Reckless fiscal discipline (see the main essay by “Author” and numerous examples herein)
= On meds for “depression.”
= Alcoholic
= Cheater / player
= Refusal to ID me to her parents as a boyfriend let alone potential future fiancee
= Constant derogatory comments about my own career advancement and financial resources, in spite of herself being borderline impoverished without help from her parents, and utterly incompetent in her career (including multiple on-the-spot firings and gross non compliance with basic work rules)
= Was at her “best” with me when we were both under the influence of alcohol or pot (with her being out of control and me being simply intoxicated while still in control)

And now, for the happy ending (I think!):

When I DID marry, it was to someone with the following characteristics:

= From an old money family whose wealth originated in the Old World
= And yet, never insisted on let alone even had the notion of a prenup
= A social conservative and very religious
= Non smoker and a teetotaler
= And yet, socially adept and a real people person
= Extremely disciplined fiscally but not a miser
= Well traveled (but not via “party expeditions”)
= Musically inclined and mindful of traditional cultural elements (ballet, classical music, theatre) but not adverse to clubbing, movies and modern cultural experiences
= Introduced me to my inlaws as an extremely high priority, including a formal engagement ceremony and celebration

In general, the comments about behavior are key. Also, if you find your prospective wife putting you in difficult or awkward situations, then run like hell!

Steve
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Re: Catch 22
Post by nameless1 on Jun 15, 2005, 2:49pm

I couldnt agree more. If you date a psycho, you will end up getting divorced. it sounded like the first two were mentally ill.
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Re: Catch 22
Post by Steve Sadlov on Jun 15, 2005, 3:10pm

RE: it sounded like the first two were mentally ill.

I cannot rule it out in either case. In the first case, her being a date rape victim must have caused untold psychological damage. And not to blame the victim but apparently her entire lifestyle and behavior at the time certainly did little to minimize the danger of such a thing occurring. Her refusal to get help for years probably resulted in some severe issues. So yeah, probably, she was technically mentally ill. The second one was essentially a classic substance abuser and sex addict. She had a weird relationship (love-hate extremes) with her parents and at very least had unresolved childhood behavioral and learning problems that had slipped into adulthood. Was she truly bipolar? I still don’t know for sure. It could have just been a combination of poor parenting / low maturity and the drugs and booze. Who knows, clean and sober maybe she would be perfectly normal. I wish them both all the best.

Steve
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Re: Catch 22
Post by khankrumthebulgar on Jun 16, 2005, 1:09pm

When I look at my life and my Male Friends I am appalled at the debasement of our culture. What has happened is that our culture rewards those who are Predators. Especially Female predators are rewarded for their irresponsible behavior. Economics states when you subsidize something you get more of it it, when you tax it you get less of it. We have been subsidizing Divorce and it is like a runaway locomotive.

No-fault Divorce is the first target in correcting the inequities in our relationships between the gender. That is a start. If that is not changed the rest will not work. Second we must focus on protecting children from Gays & FemNags. Men must invest more time in children’s issues. Brothers we are hanging separately we need to come to a consensus and stand together. The War against Poor Fathers and Debtors prison must end. The War on Fathers must end.

Women who are ethical and moral will join us I hope. If not we must fight for our Sons, Nephews, Fathers, Brothers, and Grandsons. We owe it to them and to the future of our Republic. We must go to war with the FemNags & Gays over the attacks on Masculinity and Straight Men. We must become more militant than the Gays.
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Re: Catch 22
Post by knight40 on Jun 17, 2005, 1:44pm

Excellent posts.

The incentive for the criminal syndicate divorce industry, which is money, must be eliminated from the equation.

Gov. and churches need to get out of peoples personal lives/marriages, etc.

They are only in it for one reason, control/money.

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Re: Catch 22
Post by 2girly on Jun 17, 2005, 11:38pm

You are onto something. The whole world is basically revolving itself around money and power….how sad
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Re: Catch 22
Post by knight40 on Jun 18, 2005, 1:42am

Many claim money is the root of all evil, they are only half right.

Societies delusions are the cause of evil.

Evil is man-made (society) and is not a natural condition found in nature.

Money is one form of man-made evil, and their are many others too.

We worship false gods and idols.

There is nature, that is all.

Everything else is sheer delusion.

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Re: Catch 22
Post by nameless1 on Jun 20, 2005, 8:03pm

I feel like I am speaking to God. I am not saying I dislike it. You are very spiritual. I wish I was more spiritual myself. You go!
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Re: Catch 22
Post by knight40 on Jun 21, 2005, 1:08am

There is was also a mens movement with Robert Bligh (PBS) in which men expressed disillusionment with modern life, marriage, kids etc, relationships with their fathers.

Feminism is a symptom of a much greater societal problem.

We have to look at what went wrong in this whole system in the USA in all areas.

Church, Gov, etc all need to get out of peoples lives, stop taxing them to death, get out of the marriage and divorce industry, etc

The USA is no diff than any other country or culture in many respects.

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Written by dontmarry

May 13, 2007 at 2:37 pm

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