You Can Do It Later…
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You Can Do It Later…
Post by me on Feb 16, 2006, 12:47am
Ya know, right now, I just turned 30 and am on the brink of finishing a grad degree (Ph.D.) and have focused most of my 20s on schooling/building my career. And even my 30s, I will continue quite a bit in this path, building up my career, focusing on my finances, and just enjoying life (after writing the dreaded dissertation).
Its weird because I see most of my friends now married, with houses…many have kids, and I’m sure they are on the way for others in just a few years, or even months. I sometimes wonder if I made the right decision, so radically focusing on my career, and getting myself into a line of work where I’ll have to keep committing myself to it into the future. Academia is tough.
Sometimes I wonder…I feel bad about myself, seeing my other friends and families with nice houses, the picket fence the doggies…am I missing out on life?
But then I think…I mean, can’t I do that anyways? Can’t I get the house, the dog, the girl (probably not wife for me) and the babies…like later in life, in my late 30s, early 40s? I mean…it can be tough, I know its tough to watch other people enjoy their lives that way, watching life pass you by…but, can’t I do that anyway?
I mean, I’m a guy…we don’t have expiration dates like the ladies. We can get married in our late 30s, early 40s, perfectly fine and normally. It will just happen 10 years later, thats all. In the meantime, I will have focused on my career, have gotten my Ph.D., have forced everyone around me to call me Doctor! Have moved up in my career, one where I can work well into my old age, an advantage over many other careers (I’ve seen some darned old professors in Universities having a dandy ol time…). Academia can be drudgery often, yes. Delayed gratifiation? That’s my middle name. But in the long run…the long long run…over a lifetime…maybe I’ve made the right decision?
Any guys here just ten years older, in their 40s, who can speak to this? Its hard to stay emotionally strong and even through these tough times (finishing stages of Ph.D), but over the long term…just maybe this was all wise.
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Re: You Can Do It Later…
Post by 3141591 on Feb 16, 2006, 1:07am
Well, I’m a little bit below your age demographic, but if it’s any consolation, another four years won’t hurt. I have a ~ 1M house, several rental properties, expensive cars, etc., and no wife. I have a girlfriend, and that’s good enough. I don’t have any intention of getting married anytime soon. Why would I? I’ve seen the slavery that some of my friends have gone through, and more than a few have said they wouldn’t get married again except for the kids…That’s enough of a warning for me.
I have several friends who are very well off financially, and they all say the same thing – “I have too much to lose”.
I’m not anti-women. I think they’re great, but I can’t see making the kind of deal that marriage is.
If someone offered you a coin flip with the following bargain, would you take it?
Heads, you give up half of what you own, and half of what you will make for the next ten years (or more)
Tails, you get to have sex sometimes, not necessarily when you’re in the mood, and you’ll still have to pay for it each time. You’ll have constant companionship, whether you want it or not, and at least some of the time it should be pleasant companionship.
Maybe marriage has more of an upside than I’ve portrayed, but the downside is the same, and the odds are likely worse than a mere 50%…
My .02
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Re: You Can Do It Later…
Post by gonzo on Feb 16, 2006, 1:11am
I can certainly relate. I am reaching the tail end of my 20s (I’ll be 28 next month) and pondering whether or not I should get an MBA which would pretty much finish off the rest of my 20s and take me to age 30. Or should I focus on having “fun” and on my workouts. I spent ages 18-25 focusing on school/work and still kinda burnt out on the whole thing. But then again, I’m thinking career change because I’m in IT and that isn’t a career that usually lasts to retirement.. The thought has also crossed my mind to forget the MBA and focus on a side business. I’m just kinda torn. The MBA will always be there, but ya can’t always date younger women, or quickly achieve fitness goals as ya get older.
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Re: You Can Do It Later…
Post by dickthedog on Feb 16, 2006, 1:17am
I’m 49 years old. I got married in 1989 to the sweetest tempered pretty little gal I’d ever met. I loved her more than my own life. After 8 years of marriage, she had turned into a controlling shrew. Nothing I did was good enough. Everything was my fault. With encouragement from her circle of embittered feminist friends and family, she filed for divorce behind my back. She had an ex-parte order issued to kick me out of my own house. She froze all marital assets (except for the $$ she siphoned off my paychecks and hid.) I was left homeless and destitute and she seemed to be enjoying every minute.
I had never done anything to warrant such shoddy treatment. I was faithful supportive and generous. I couldn’t grasp how she could do it, but now I know. She felt she “deserved” to be happy. That’s all the reason a female needs. I was holding the poor thing back.
You say you look at married friends and are envious. Give it a couple years. 60+% of them will be reliving my nightmare. They’ll be envious of you.
If you were to go skydiving and the instructor informed you that 6 out of 10 parachutes won’t open, would you leave it to chance that you’d be lucky?
Maintain your single course and have fun. Don’t fall prey to the perverted concept of marriage that is the norm these days
Good luck, brother
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Re: You Can Do It Later…
Post by toadman on Feb 16, 2006, 1:36am
Quote:You say you look at married friends and are envious. Give it a couple years. 60+% of them will be reliving my nightmare. They’ll be envious of you.
Absolutely! 3, 5-10 years when the kids are teens and assets are near maxed she’ll eject. You’ll be consoling your friend, now a living male corpse reliving early 20’s income/assets, over a few at the local pub.
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Re: You Can Do It Later…
Post by skeptos on Feb 16, 2006, 2:49pm
FWIW, I think you’ve made the right decision provided you genuinely enjoy what you’re doing, and it sounds like you do. I’m about your age and basically in the same position — I was in school for a long time and now I’m in the early stages (postdoc) of what I hope will be a lifelong career in biophysics research (and perhaps academia, although there are possibilities in industry and government too and I’m still not sure where I’d be happiest). In the meantime, I’ve put off marriage and children and don’t date much. I’ve only had one serious girlfriend, and that was more than six years ago.
I don’t know which field you’re in (so I may be saying stuff you already know), but in the sciences you typically take a series of short-term research associate appointments after grad school before securing a permanent position somewhere. You might spend 5+ years living a nomadic existence, moving every two or three years to a new city, and perhaps a new country, and you’re always flying out of town for conferences, talks, etc.
If you’re curious and adventurous and can tolerate a certain amount of instability in your lifestyle, this can be fun and exciting, and you definitely see much more of the world than you would in a normal career. But it would be all but impossible with a wife and family, unless the wife worked too. Postdocs and assistant profs usually make around 35k-45k, which is reasonably comfortable for a single person but difficult to support a family on. If I had to support young children, make the mortgage payments for a house in the suburbs and the loan payments on a minivan for the wife, and so on, there’s simply no way I could be in the job I am now. I’d have to be making at least 70k or so and living in one place, which would probably mean some soul-killing corporate job doing something that bored me to tears. If I do stay in academia, I’ll probably be at least in my mid- to late thirties before I have a reasonably permanent position and good salary and can settle down.
As you point out, this isn’t a huge problem for men, though it’s probably the #1 reason there aren’t more women in senior positions in science. We have the option of starting families when we’re in our late thirties or early forties — I even knew one professor who started his when he was in his late fifties, although there are other reasons one might not want to wait that long — but women don’t. So a lot of them will do their Ph.D.s and maybe a postdoc or two, and then take five years off to have kids, which basically kills their careers. (And this is somehow our fault!)
So, yeah, you do have to delay gratification quite a bit, and watch other people your age move “ahead” of you, and that can suck. But IMO the plus side is that I’m doing what I love and I feel like my life is still an amazing adventure. I doubt that many of my married friends with children can say that.
Skeptos
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Re: You Can Do It Later…
Post by JimP on Feb 16, 2006, 3:00pm
If you really have doubts about marrying an american woman, take a vacation and go live in Kiev for one month. All your doubts will disappear forever. I love women, I have kids, and I’m very happily married to a Ukrainian immigrant (we met a few months after her family moved here). Once you start dating foreign women (and I think all the guys on the board who’ve actually done it will vouch for what I’m saying), you’ll start to treat american women the way they deserve to be treated, namely as violet psychopaths with leprosy.
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Re: You Can Do It Later…
Post by romulus on Feb 16, 2006, 3:04pm
I’m in the same position. I’m 28 and finishing up grad school and have no intention of breaking my stride to settle down anytime soon. I have many friends who got married 4-5 yeas ago and some of their wives are pregnant with their second child. Based on their experiences, I’ve seen the drawbacks of married life when you’re career has yet to take off. These friends are struggling to make ends meet, one of them has a part time job delivering pizzas in addition to working full time to make financial obligations. Whether you want to settle down or not is your choice, just do it when you’re financially stable and you’re at a comfortable point in your career.
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Re: You Can Do It Later…
Post by toadman on Feb 16, 2006, 4:20pm
Quote:I’ve seen the drawbacks of married life when you’re career has yet to take off.
AW are Dream-Killers. They can/will stymie many attempts for you to get ahead, knowing that your increased success and wealth could lead to upgrading to a new companion. Try pregnancy for instance.
Pursue excellence and success before settling down with anyone! You won’t be in the same league as women you dated in your 20’s. Trust me, you’ll outgrow your young bride. Be near to your maximum earnings potential in your field before looking and then get a pre-nup.
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Re: You Can Do It Later…
Post by The Author on Feb 16, 2006, 5:44pm
Me,
Building a career and having a family are not mutually exclusive.
You can do both, you know. In fact, that’s what everyone does.
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Re: You Can Do It Later…
Post by asdf on Feb 16, 2006, 6:57pm
Yeah but it come at the expense of “me time” and sleep.
Feb 16, 2006, 5:44pm, The Author wrote:Me,
Building a career and having a family are not mutually exclusive.
You can do both, you know. In fact, that’s what everyone does.
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Re: You Can Do It Later…
Post by thor on Feb 17, 2006, 4:16am
JimP said: “If you really have doubts about marrying an american woman, take a vacation and go live in Kiev for one month.”
Then you definitely won’t want to get married:). Kiev is pussy heaven. You will want to throw rocks at AW when you return and will seriously wonder where all the attractive women are and why all of the ones here are so psycho. I can even rent you my flat for a very reasonable price. 80% of the women between 18 and 40 there are drop dead gorgeous the rest are decent looking. Ugly women are very rare and none have attitudes at all. All know how to cook, clean, and feel an obligation to take care of their man. Its the complete opposite of what you have known until now. What an awesome country! The beer and food are really good too.
Jim, how’s your wife’s borscht? I bet its great!
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Re: You Can Do It Later…
Post by doingitmyway on Feb 18, 2006, 10:15am
I think the biggest danger of doing a Ph.D is your late entry into the housing market. I didn’t buy my first property until 5 years after i finished my Ph.D and this was a mistake.
Focus on buying the house with the white picket fence as soon as possible, you know, the one you’d like to raise a family in. But don’t live in it, rent it out. Travel as your career dictates, do various post-docs, but in the back of your mind you will know you have “that life” as an option if you want it. In the mean time, someone else is paying most of the mortgage while you are free to pursure your career.
One interesting aspect of this forum is the number of Ph.Ds here. They seem pretty thick on the ground given that only 1-2% of the general population have them. Also, lets not forget about those who have a Masters(or two), an MBA, an MD. etc.
Judging from the quality of many of the posts here, i think many guys are “Ph.D types” even if they don’t have one. The ability to use logic/statistics, the tendancy not follow the masses, to seek information independently, to question whatever we’re told and the ability to come up with alternate solutions (ie. FW as wives) are some of the qualities i’m talking about.
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