A Question for My Black Brothers?
A Question for My Black Brothers?
Post by khankrumthebulgar on Dec 22, 2005, 12:22pm
Wilie and others how do we attract more Black and Minority Men to the Men’s Rights Movement? This is an important part of our struggle for justice. We are allowing a war to be waged on behalf of Feminists on Minority Men. The numbers of Minority Men in our Prisons is appalling. The homicide rate amongst Minority Men is absolutely an indictment of the insanity of our current policies.
How do we effectively reach out to our Black, Hispanic, and Native American Brothers and say Gents join us? Would like to hear your thoughts. As the Father in Law of a Black Man and grandfather to 3 Black Grandsons. This issue is really important to me.
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Re: A Question for My Black Brothers?
Post by travis on Dec 22, 2005, 12:57pm
Get Bill Clinton, Howard Stern, and/or as Chris Rock mentioned, Pat Riley, to join us.
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Re: A Question for My Black Brothers?
Post by Willie Molson on Dec 22, 2005, 1:04pm
Khan, that is a really difficult question to answer. In general, unfortunately, most men come to the conclusions many of us in this forum come to through some bad relationships. Men, at least many of the African-American men I know, tend not to share their experiences and observations in these matters in a constructive way, thus preventing them from joining other men with similar experiences.
My own odyssey into my current state of consciousness was fomented by career angst and a general sense that society was dehumanizing me as a man in the process of socializing me to my role. I started with Herb Goldbery’s Hazards of Being Male, but I really didn’t have any male friends to bounce my observations and ideas off of. Farrell’s Myth of Male Power, Vilar’s The Manipulated Man, and my own singular observations are some of the things which furthered my men’s rights evolution.
That is why I value the camaraderie of this forum and why I am grateful to The Author for his online essay. Because of the things said by numerous constructive posters here, who are too numerous to just delineate, I no longer feel quite so alone in my perceptions and values.
It’s a slow, incremental process Khan.
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Re: A Question for My Black Brothers?
Post by IndependantBlackMan on Dec 22, 2005, 1:10pm
My friend, I wish even I knew the answer to that. What I can tell you is that group-think is very pervasive among black folks. There are many historical reasons for it that I won’t get into here.
The task then is for the movement to focus on black men who are least likely to be trapped in the group-think box. The higher the education and class, the better the chance the men would be open to this.
Even working class and below would be more open to this movement if they have had exposure to life outside the “Black Box” so to speak.
For the hip hop elements, the playas, the gangstas and the overly-religious types FORGET IT! In my estimation that would exclude roughly half of all black men in America.
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Re: A Question for My Black Brothers?
Post by khankrumthebulgar on Dec 22, 2005, 1:15pm
Willie our Founding Fathers understood that they would either prevail together or all hang separately. We cannot succeed as a movement and leave the Minority Men behind. This is not about White privilege, as the FemNags would like to believe. The Black Family in our culture is almost an oxymoron. The role of Black Men as Fathers and heads of their Families must be restored.
A conversation with a Black Friend in Dallas two years ago stunned me. He told me of 45 Friends, cousins, and Relatives not one was living with the Mother of their Children. I told him that was the worst thing and greatest Tragedy I had heard of in many years. That shocked him to hear from a White male.
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Re: A Question for My Black Brothers?
Post by Richie Rich on Dec 22, 2005, 8:25pm
There is no simple answer for what is going on. Everyone has different answers such as poverty, poor role models/values, a meddling Uncle Sam to over zealous feminists.
IMHO, it is a cluster shit of all the above!!!
Basically, no one gives a rat’s ass about anything logical anymore and regress to a primitive behavior. It was seen mainly as poor inner city problem for years but now it is taking hold of mainstream society slowly but surely. I never thought I would live to see the day when many white men are disgusted with their own women’s behavior and opt for FW.
Only divine help from above can correct the sad situation!!!
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Re: A Question for My Black Brothers?
Post by Simpson on Dec 22, 2005, 10:01pm
I’ll pipe up, as a white man, because this is an excellent issue for us to discuss. As Khank mentions, young black men have paid a greater price than others, and black women have been acknowledged as pure bitches on this very board by these very posters.
What would a campaign be to get the message to the black men? It would involve breaking the image they have of hip-hop and bitches – the media/music angle aimed at these men, and as an outside observer – is the biggest factor. The racial “black” prejudice in this country is foisted on me to this day by the media; Racism is hammered on me by Jesse Jackson: like the Jap who climbs out of a remote island cave 40 years after WWII, still defending the Empire. I have no problem with my brothers, and really need them on board for the good of the program. Jesse and the media paint me, whiteyboy, as the enemy.
I’ll be the first to step up and help a fellow man, regardless of race or creed.
Bring them here, we need them as much as they need us.
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Re: A Question for My Black Brothers?
Post by Richie Rich on Dec 22, 2005, 11:27pm
***Jesse Jackson***
…A two legged injured horse that needs to be put down for its own good. A once respected man during the civil rights era and viewed in leadership roles has shown he is just washed up these days. First came the revelation of an out of wedlock child and now the ULTIMATE in desperation for attention, boycotting KFC (Kentucky Fried Chicken) with the animal rights group PETA against the mis-ethical treatment of CHICKENS!!!
As if blacks don’t have more problems than a fast food protest then there is Louis Farrakhan. Many whites will think he is extreme but he preaches self reliance and atonement of one’s bad decisions. He may be a little anti-Semitic for some also. Now he is refereeing between gangster rap artists to prevent another hip hop star being gunned down and has went as far as saying today’s young black generation is the best there ever was….WTF kind of experimental crack is he smoking???
Rap music, thug culture and bling-bling everything is the most destructive thing to ever behold blacks and a man who mediates black on black violence gives praises to the crap. The shit is the main reason for the daily gun battles between young men who cant tell a studio gangster’s album from the real consequences of prison and violent street life. Even more bewildering to me is how the young and even older women WORSHIP these shit headed prison alumni/thugs/drug dealers!!!
No, there is no hope for many people unless some form of divine intervention takes place!!!
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Re: A Question for My Black Brothers?
Post by Snakey on Dec 23, 2005, 12:31am
Random thought from a white guy if I may: Seems to be the same question of how to part the lace curtain in general. You could argue that in the more extreme rap cultures there’s not a trace of the lace curtain because of the sometimes misogynist lyrics, but nor is there intelligent comment from the male perspective in those examples (I’m talking the 50 cent gangsta stuff here, not the more thoughtful stuff like Lyrics Born.) The kind of ‘fuck a bitch’ statement with no elaboration maybe even plays into feminist hands somewhat, as they can say, “See? Sexism! We need more VAWA.”
Kayne West seems to be setting a good example (if you’ve heard the song ‘gold digger’ you know what I’m talking about.)
We also shouldn’t lose the opportunity to form brotherhoods between men of different races, after all we are facing a common enemy/danger, out to get every one of us.
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Re: A Question for My Black Brothers?
Post by ddg on Dec 23, 2005, 9:05am
As an African-American man I’d say the best way to get more brothas involved is to get them talking about problems with women first. No matter what your skin color is 9 times out of 10 if you have a woman you have problems.
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Re: A Question for My Black Brothers?
Post by IndependantBlackMan on Dec 23, 2005, 10:19am
All very valid points indeed. One thing to remember is the huge role that black women play in perpetuating the thug bling-bling crap. Trashy ghetto women respond to and reward trappings of that lifestyle, so weak-minded black men oblige.
A wise person once wrote, “Wherever women decide to go, men will surely follow.” The more women respond to and reward traditional lifestyles, the more Black men would clean up their act. If black women uniformly rejected the ghetto thug paradigm, black men would quickly be more Carlton from Fresh Prince and much less 2Pac.
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Re: A Question for My Black Brothers?
Post by soon to be SolShinobi on Dec 23, 2005, 10:54am
Dec 23, 2005, 9:05am, ddg wrote:As an African-American man I’d say the best way to get more brothas involved is to get them talking about problems with women first. No matter what your skin color is 9 times out of 10 if you have a woman you have problems.
As a black man on this forum that is new here. I would agree with the statements above.
I think we also come here out of trying to find answers of why they do what they do. Understanding. Not everyone is like me that will read and read and read a topic to death to gain understanding.
I don’t even think this is a race issue….it’s a human issue and I’m not being cliche’. I’m being very real. How women act now is their emotional response to what is their perception (even though distorted) of what an alpha male is.
To me, for this to gain more strength, will take more men that want to know answers and seek them out. If it is easier accessible….then more will come, but with this will come those that agree with us but use it to become the player as the influence of “chasin booty” is still strong.
You have to appeal to them not becoming the proverbial “sucker”.
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Re: A Question for My Black Brothers?
Post by Richie Rich on Dec 23, 2005, 1:25pm
“Wherever women decide to go, men will surely follow.”
….An outstanding quote indeed!!!
I have looked at many of the youngsters and see they have ZERO incentive to behave in a more respectable manner because the young women shun those types as “lames”. Just listen to female artists and hear them craving some gutter thug/street pharmacist to be their protectors and even father of their kids. There is a deafening silence from black womens magazines about what type of men the young women cater to while a harsh admonishment of young men’s attitude to women.
I blame the men’s view of young women on the misandrists in black communities. Many young men grow up without fathers and the women in turn lash out on the boys with many derogatory names which kills any self esteem they may of had. In turn the young men bond with each other and resort to shaming the very women they grow up with as some sort of male camaraderie. It is a face saving method due to many women with nasty attitudes who live to insult men. This is a good example how feminist’s poison have back fired on them and in a grand scale!!!
I have heard the term “The Africanization of the white male” because of the amount of suburban youths who listen to rap music and emulate the artists view of women. Some program I saw once asked a group of white youths why they now call women bitches, hoes and tricks is because it is easier to approach women when you have no fear of them instead of risking embarrassment by thinking she is more important than you are. This may be a crude behavior but many AW nasty attitudes seem to force men to resort to harshness in order to deal with them.
This is just not youngsters, but older men are now seeing that politeness, decency, respect and compassion has no place in this society in regards to AW. How many nice guys stories are heard with success of women versus some skid row or street soldier type who cant seem to beat the women of him fast enough. This is just another example of how the women’s liberation movement deviated to some destructive psychotic mission with feminists causing women to have poor choices in men and lack accountability for bad behaviors.
This is just my little .02 cents about this situation. Overall, society seems like a rapidly sinking ship with few life rafts to help those who want help!!!
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Re: A Question for My Black Brothers?
Post by David on Dec 23, 2005, 2:09pm
I’m a young black man who has been reading posts on this site for a few months now, and I must say that it is one of the greatest forums on educating men about the dangers of marriage in today’s American society no matter the race or condition of the male. Being that this is my first post, I’d like to say THANKS to all who share on this forum and for the author’s article “why marriage has become a raw deal for men”.
I think for myself and don’t bend to “society”. Before I visited this or any “no marriage” site I observed that we men are degraded in society by the media, feminism, and a host of other things – all on my own. I tried to find books, TV shows and outlets about men in America and marriage and men, but to no avail. Then one day I decided to search the internet – and I came up with two great sites – dont-marry.com and nomarriage.com. More on that later.
To attract more black men to this site, I think they have to be reached in a different way. The same marriage/divorce issues affect all of us men in western civilization – black, white, asian, or whatever you are. I find that I educate my friends the best by talking to them personally while we are watching or playing sports, or anything like that. Since black men in general tend to shy away from everyone else (and not explore the world around them out of fear) because of the media and other stuff and stick to one another – I find that personal interaction is better. THEN I refer them to this site and nomarriage.com. I just love to see the responses they have after our initial conversations and reading these web sites.
I think that – combined with other ways – is the best. Feminism/marriage and divorce laws are killing all of us men.
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Re: A Question for My Black Brothers?
Post by Willie Molson on Dec 23, 2005, 7:24pm
IBM and David, both great posts. David, your approach is pretty much what I’ve done. I recently reconnected with an old childhood male friend of mine, and we discussed many of the issues we’ve bandied about here. I then refer him to this website. It is by these incremental, admittedly painfully slow steps, that we can bring in more of our Black brothers from the cold and hook them up the experiences of our White and Asian brothers.
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Re: A Question for My Black Brothers?
Post by Seanp1 on Dec 23, 2005, 7:33pm
Krank, your Black. I knew something was up when you said you had 5 kids.
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Re: A Question for My Black Brothers?
Post by khankrumthebulgar on Dec 23, 2005, 10:04pm
Sorry Dude not. My ancestry is German, Irish, Scottish, Lithuanian, and Chippewa. Definitely Caucasian. My Son In Law is African American. I was a Mormon and had a large family due to my religious practice.
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Re: A Question for My Black Brothers?
Post by soon to be SolShinobi on Dec 24, 2005, 12:42pm
Dec 23, 2005, 1:25pm, Richie Rich wrote:
I blame the men’s view of young women on the misandrists in black communities. Many young men grow up without fathers and the women in turn lash out on the boys with many derogatory names which kills any self esteem they may of had. In turn the young men bond with each other and resort to shaming the very women they grow up with as some sort of male camaraderie. It is a face saving method due to many women with nasty attitudes who live to insult men. This is a good example how feminist’s poison have back fired on them and in a grand scale!!!
I only disagree with one thing that you say here and we can agree to disagree, however many young men get a negative attitude toward women by how the girls act/treat them themselves. Now the girl’s negative behavior could be led back to not seeing consistent examples of men/women in a romantic loving relationship. As you stated and agreed with, men follow women especially in attraction. They respond to what works. The young male’s mindset might be damaged due to the lack of positive example’s of a loving, respectful relationship.
The more negative the action to another,….the more damage it creates in the psyche of the other. It has an “avalanche” effect as is as it becomes more destructive as the negative is passed to the next healthy or possibly damaged psyche.
Just stating what I’ve seen first hand.
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Re: A Question for My Black Brothers?
Post by youngbuck on Dec 25, 2005, 11:03am
I hate to be pessimistic, but I don’t think you will find a significant amount of black men involved in the male movement. To be involved in the male movement, you have to think outside the box. If you had to pick a group of people with herd mentality and mimicry, then look no further than the typical black male. It’s no coincidence that every stereotypical black man wants a hummer or escalade with spinning rims and gaudy jewelry. Why? Group think. Black posters on this board are the exception and not the rule. If you are here, then you clearly think outside the box. Popular culture instills it into the mind of young black men what being “black” is about. This has been drilled so much that the definition of blackness has become hip-hop and thuggery. What that has to do with being black, beats me, but that culture is not one that will be involved in any male movement.
To be involved in the male movement, you would have to concede that you’ve had problems with women, think women are usurping your power, think your rights as a man are being trampled etc. This puts the typical alpha-male hip-hop thug at the crossroads. He will never admit that because he’s a player, a pimp, a hustler and he gets all the bitches, he has a strong pimp hand. Only weak suckas get trampled etc. That can never be him, thus he by default can’t be in that sort of movement.
Many black men don’t have problems getting laid. Black women might be a headache to them, but for younger black males, provided you look decent, it’s almost carte blanche with women of other races. With hip-hop being popular and accepted now, many girls want a black guy, just because he’s black. Not just any black guy, but a “street” one. There is no shortage of that. Kind of hard to convince you that there is a problem when you are oblivious to it and for the most part are unaffected by it (well to your knowledge at least)
Socially, black men have been completely devastated by feminism, but not really financially, at least not as badly as white males. The thing is that when rotten behavior is done frequently, it becomes the norm. So the casualties of feminism waged on the black community like fatherless homes and out of wedlock children are now the norm, so it’s normal. They don’t see that as the ravages of feminism gone crazy. Most black men have not felt the sticker shock of divorce because many are not married and had kids out of wedlock, and many have little assets to lose when they got divorced. Alimony and child support is a foreign concept in the hood. Baby daddy just buys his kid sneakers and pampers when he feels like it…that’s that.
Sorry to generalize, but I think you will only find “educated” black men in the movement, and they are the select few who think outside the box. Sadly with education taking a backseat in the black community, men like that will be the exception and not the rule from my observations.
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Re: A Question for My Black Brothers?
Post by Richie Rich on Dec 25, 2005, 12:16pm
“but I think you will only find “educated” black men in the movement”
-youngbuck
True, as in those who think outside the box as you stated but only those types. I know quite a few “educated” black males who engage in reckless behavior with women as well because they have money and a healthy flow of women. Even these men know not to marry because of the loss in court they are guaranteed by witnessing what happens to men in mainstream society!!
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Re: A Question for My Black Brothers?
Post by David on Dec 26, 2005, 12:35pm
youngbuck, what you’ve said is the truest thing in the world. I’m glad I’m tuned in to this site as a single, childless, debt less, and educated well to do young black man. Thinking outside of the box is definitely one of my assets. I also find that non-thuggish black men tend to think outside of the box also.
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Re: A Question for My Black Brothers?
Post by Willie Molson on Dec 26, 2005, 1:10pm
Young Buck, I agree with David. What you posted is right on the money.
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