Be leary of cohabitation
Be leary of cohabitation
Post by HardWay on Feb 18th, 2005, 10:05am
Gentlemen, think you are going to get around the pitfalls of divorce by simply cohabitating? Think again. As the marriage rate falls and people opt more often for cohabitation, states and courts are adding more and more laws and you could very well end up in family court if this arrangement fails. This is important to know because a recent study by Rutgers University showed that one of the main reasons men are refusing marriage today is they can gain all the same benefits through cohabitation without the legal liability. This is a mistake in thinking. Please, if you already cohabitate or are considering to do so, read:
as it will provide you with a derth of information. A lot of the information I have found has shown that you could STAND TO LOSE MORE WHEN COHABITATION TERMINATES THAN THROUGH DIVORCE. As always, gentlemen, protect yourselves.
The following is from here:
Cohabitation
If the possibility of marriage followed by divorce is unacceptable, then cohabitation followed by chaos is even less appealing.
For a host of reasons, many people are living together and not marrying. Nevertheless, they face similar issues in managing their affairs as married couples. Some couples opt for entering into written cohabitation agreements dealing with the parties’ rights and responsibilities on such issues as:
* children.
* property.
* disability of a partner.
* dissolution of the relationship.
* death of a partner.
Best advice: put everything in writing. Get help from your own lawyer before signing. Update the agreement from time to time as your circumstances change and keep it current with the ever-changing laws on cohabitation in your state. The laws are murky and legal standards are uncertain, but lawyers see an increasing number of problems facing cohabitants, so they try crafting solutions for unmarried partners.
Consider using written agreements on the following:
* sharing of major expenses such as mortgage or rent.
* parenting plans for biological or adopted children of the relationship.
* visitation plans for children with no biological or legal relationship to one of the partners.
* health care proxies in case of disability.
* a plan for dividing property on dissolution of the relationship or death.
* life insurance and other estate planning tools to address financial concerns on the death of a partner.
Additionally, Marriage and Family Review points out:
“Since state laws have not established cohabitation as a legal relationship, the rights of cohabitors have been established through court decisions. Consequently, cohabitors are likely to find themselves in a position of uncertainty with respect to their legal rights.”
Keep palimony in mind, too. A definition follows, but in many cases, a nonmarried partner can base palimony claims on nothing more than a verbal or IMPLIED contract:
palimony
A non-legal term coined by journalists to describe the division of property or alimony-like support given by one member of an unmarried couple to the other after they break up.
This is good reason as to why a cohabitation contract, established by a lawyer, is a good idea. With such a contract, you can protect yourself. Of course, also keep in mind, you can attempt to refute such claims by arguing you were only roommates and there was no sexual relationship. Sex is central to cohabitation law. But it would be a difficult argument to make.
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Correction
Post by HardWay on Feb 18th, 2005, 12:21pm
I hate to reply to correct my own post, but I just noticed a mistake I made above. For some reason, I used “Derth” where I should have used “wealth.” Please forgive this mistake. I sometimes get typing and do so without really thinking what I am writing.
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Re: Be leary of cohabitation
Post by The Author on Feb 18th, 2005, 7:12pm
Bottom line:
1) Be careful who you have kids with. You will FOREVER be financially entwined (or obligated) with this person. If you have opposite financial habits ….RUN RUN RUN…
2) NEVER EVER let your wife (or lover) stop working. EVER EVER EVER….Agree upon this BEFORE marriage. In today’s world, there is NO PLACE for a non-working wife, after kids are age 5. When it took 5 hours to churn butter, and when there was a farm to tend to, perhaps….But today? NO. A non working wife is an OBSOLETE institution. DO NOT BUY INTO THE HYPE.
I feel these 2 things will nullify the MAJORITY of marriage/divorce inequities .
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Re: Be leary of cohabitation
Post by Niall on Feb 20th, 2005, 07:01am
In UK the standard tactic of the Left is to make noise about how unfair something is and then gauge the public reaction, if no reaction then laws are quietly framed and implemented.
There is currently a huge amount of noise about how unfair it is that co-habitees have little legals rights on separation and they keep banging on about how a woman who has lived with a man for 20 years and then splits up has no right to his assets or maintenance and its just ‘not fair’.
Expect legislation in UK shortly after the next election (May 2005) that gives woman the same rights on co-habitation as marriage AND expect it to be applied retrospectively…
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Re: Be leary of cohabitation
Post by me on Feb 20th, 2005, 10:07pm
I would be arrested, or become a bum in the streets, if they tried to take my money through some retrospective act like that. I would quickly take all assets, sell them off, give all the money to a good charity, then become a bum in the streets.
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Re: Be leary of cohabitation
Post by HardWay on Feb 21st, 2005, 08:31am
on Feb 20th, 2005, 07:01am, Guest-Niall wrote:Expect legislation in UK shortly after the next election (May 2005) that gives woman the same rights on co-habitation as marriage AND expect it to be applied retrospectively…
I expect the same to happen in the U.S., but only to begin on the state level first. In other words, those of you living in liberal states will see laws created to protect the “unmoneyed” partner, or as justice Smith of NY said, women. According to the U.S. Census, the number of unmarried couples living together increased by 72% between 1990 and 2000 and 10-fold between 1960 and 2000. This leads me to believe legislators will be forced to face this issue sooner or later. The good news is, most people don’t realize they have some legal rights, based on liberal doctrine decided by courts, not legislation. In my opinion, legislation is needed, but only to put these judges in their place. Cohabitation is not a legal contract and should have no more protection under the law than would roommates.
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Re: Be leary of cohabitation
Post by me on Feb 21st, 2005, 10:22pm
Stay away from women until this whole thing blows over. If it ever does. And start using prostitutes. Sad to say, but it’s less risky.
We live in a society where marrying or living with a woman is really irresponsible behavior. Using the safest prostitute you can find from time to time is less risky, somewhat more responsible.
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Re: Be leary of cohabitation
Post by HardWay on Feb 22nd, 2005, 08:17am
Me,
As sick as that sounds, it is so true. Although dating is basically the legalized version, although there is no guarantee of receiving services. I personally prefer serial monogamy. It takes a little more work and is more costly than prostitutes at first. But that period between where she will do pretty much anything for you (sex, laundry, dishes, etc.) and when she starts demanding marriage/cohabitation is where the value lies. I know that sounds cold, but it’s blatantly honest. Protecting one’s assets and life’s earnings is paramount to getting married or living with someone these days.
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Re: Be leary of cohabitation
Post by Never Again on Mar 1st, 2005, 6:34pm
There is some really good information and people sharing cogent viable advice here. I appreciate that.
I must tell you that it is ridiculous out there dating right now. I can tell EVERY woman in my age group 35 -50 runs an internal FICO (Fair Issac Credit Origination Score) by eventually asking RE ownership, Credit status, Job status, potential, budgetary piqued questions, relationship status, children status, inheritance, investment status, liquidity status etc et al.
It is a SAD reality I have had to adjust to and accept since divorced in 2002. I have found NO deviations to date in dating and I’m active….
I would caution against allowing someone to share in mortgage payments since they will make an equity interest claim regarding appreciation of property if you already own it. If your in california that can be huge depending on location and property’s attributes obviously. Let them pay bills, utilities et al BUT NOT RE payments. You should make them from your own separate account since a forensic accounting seems to be “de rigour” of the day lately.
“protect yourself at all times” is right on the money because when it’s over and the gloves are off we are at a disadvantage clearly. The laws view it as a “PARTNERSHIP” and as in all partnerships tries to treat ALL parties equitably. There is just to much to risk to allow one of the parties to say I’m done, now cash me out and give me my share….
caveat emptor….
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Re: Be leary of cohabitation
Post by The Author on Mar 2nd, 2005, 07:08am
> I can tell EVERY woman in my age group 35 -50 runs an internal FICO (Fair Issac Credit Orgination Score) by
Hmm, I wish more women would ask me these questions!
But, MEN should do the same. (Unless you’re looking for a trophy wife, at which point, why not just get a hooker? B/c you wont need to keep paying the hooker after she leaves, and the trophy wife very likely will leave you if you ever fall on hard times (layoff, etc), and the hooker doesn’t get YOUR house!)
I won’t date anyone who is broke, in big debt, still renting after a certain age (without a valid reason), doesn’t have a viable longterm career, (I’m not putting ANYONE thru school except myself)
Bottom Line: I don’t want anyone’s stuff. EVER. But I don’t want a liability either. Being an active dating single is just fine until then!
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Re: Be leary of cohabitation
Post by LOGIC 101 on Mar 2nd, 2005, 9:16pm
on Mar 2nd, 2005, 07:08am, Guest-The Author wrote:> I can tell EVERY woman in my age group 35 -50 runs an internal FICO (Fair Issac Credit Origination Score) by
Hmm, I wish more women would ask me these questions!
Bottom Line: I don’t want anyone’s stuff. EVER. But I don’t want a liability either. Being an active dating single is just fine until then!
Here is the problem.
When dating (settling for a western woman) you’re likely cheating yourself and precious time on an inferior female. The world is large. Your best bet is looking outside of the western countries for real ladies.
-Logic 101
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Re: Be leary of cohabitation
Post by The Author on Mar 2nd, 2005, 9:58pm
Not realistic. Too busy to travel, etc. And not interested in a mail order bride. NO WAY…
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Re: Be leary of cohabitation
Post by Logic 101 on Mar 3rd, 2005, 08:09am
on Mar 2nd, 2005, 9:58pm, Guest-The Author wrote:Not realistic. Too busy to travel, etc. And not interested in a mail order bride. NO WAY…
It is realistic for me and worth it (meeting real ladies). I would never consider a mail order bride. However, I would a true lady. You’ll be hard pressed to find that in this country. that’s why I believe by dating them you’re wasting valuable time and resources.
Just my thoughts.
-Logic 101
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Re: Be leary of cohabitation
Post by Never Again on Mar 3rd, 2005, 1:27pm
A lot of good thought here.
There is NO WAY of guaranteeing your wife or woman you intend to marry WILL continue to work.
Mine constantly PULSED me to see where my head was at including massive therapy at my expense and I still said this was a non negotiable issue.
When she threatened to quit her job and after two unplanned and unagreed upon pregnancies I filed and immediately got snipped. Never a regret only relief from my own demise…
The best chance or odds are to find/date a woman who wants to be partner and has her own career and understands what it takes today to have all the lifestyle benes we generally want.
All one party has to do is decide to change their mind and walla the man is generally left holding the bag (loot)
Date accordingly, trust but verify, Russian et al woman are already onto the scam and have been for some time… BTDT and I realized they were as untrustworthy as american woman. Women in most of the world have already figured out that the American Institution of Marriage is a female favored racket. Forget about trying to beat the system regarding a Asian women etc…. they are sophisticated and educated to the system. Know and understand that women are the parties that generally do the changing in relationships men usually stay the same in their terms….
Without getting overly cynical, interview and observe the woman you date accordingly, their actions are the truth regardless of what they say. They know they have a market or shelf life and genetically want to find the BEST provider on their terms as much as possible. The older one gets there starts to be a leveling off.. They want companionship and get tired of the games as well. Try to date woman that have assets and responsibility that is your best bet in finding someone who relates at a equal level. otherwise don’t complain when you come to their rescue and get burned… You allowed it and ratified it by saying I do….
never sacrifice more than your willing to lose, it will compromise and devastate you in the end…
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Re: Be leary of cohabitation
Post by The Author on Mar 3rd, 2005, 9:01pm
> try to date woman that have assets and responsibility that is your best bet in finding someone who relates at a equal level. otherwise don’t complain when you come to their rescue and get burned…
Nicely put. I never pursue women who I find out are broke, or have made no plans or sacrifices for the future, or one with no career..
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