Don’t Marry

Why Modern, Western Marriage Has Become A Bad Business Decision For Men

Hiding assets prior to marriage

with one comment


Hiding assets prior to marriage
Post by guest on Jan 2, 2006, 1:46am

Since it’s a grey area……. about assets prior to marriage being exempt …(co-mingled funds, etc) Perhaps…go into the marriage with 10% of your real assets on the table? (or whatever is believable) If one truly wants to hide assets before marriage, can you put them into less liquid untraceable assets that may be overlooked in a divorce ?

1) Buy a $10,000 Rolex. It’s a low blow to make a guy sell his watch…Or…..

buy several IDENTICAL Rolexes, and hide all but one?
Or with this logic….

2) Move some money into rare collectibles? You can buy a $50,000 guitar that looks no different than a $2000 guitar. Never let on this is a valuable guitar. Keep under bed. Just say it’s worth $2000. Upon divorce, if she insists on appraisal/liquidation….switch it.

3) Buy gold brick/coins. Bury. You can sell some coins when you are tight for cash….But this way, it is never commingled. Since it is not known about. Only fully dig up after divorce.

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Re: Hiding assets prior to marriage
Post by TyHigs on Jan 2, 2006, 1:55am

I’d rather have assets that appreciate, and you simply cant do that if you have a wife cause she’s entitled to half. Think of the investment you are losing out on.

Where would you keep that stuff anyway? They’d find your safe deposit boxes in discovery. I hope your mom knows the difference between a $99 guitar and a gem. And what if there’s a fire?

I think lock boxes down in Mexico are a good idea. But then again Mexico could take your money.

Wonder what username has to say on this.
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Re: Hiding assets prior to marriage
Post by Niall NLIT on Jan 2, 2006, 2:59am

Couple of points:

1. On divorce you will be asked to sign a ‘full’ list of assets. If you hide assets and sign the list this is perjury and unlike cupcake lying you will be held to account if found out and this probably means jail time. Do you have the stones for this?

2. They must be untraceable. That means cash, gold, diamonds, etc held in a lock box out of your normal area and not signed for under your own name or a jurisdiction outside US such as Mexico. I would have no problem with a lock box in a Mexican bank, transporting the valuables there may be another issue.

3. You must tell NO ONE. Many times someone has told a ‘best friend’ and the ‘best friend’ has then told the ex-wife in the hope of getting some. Even if you tell your sainted mother, if they put her in court will she commit perjury for you? Men tend to brag about ‘smart’ things they have done especially when drunk. Can you keep it shut?

4. Unless you are very smart and can pick assets that will increase in value chances are you will have to stick with cash so no asset appreciation. Also both the purchase and sale needs to be in someone else’s name, or out of US jurisdiction so as to be untraceable.

5. You need to extract cash from your bank account or pay check to buy the assets in a manner that makes it less suspicious. A good way is taking the max cash option when you got to the store. This appears on your bank account as groceries. Little and often is the rule so long term planning is required.

If you can do all this good but wouldn’t a better option be to not sign a tripartite contract with cupcake and the government?
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Re: Hiding assets prior to marriage
Post by JimP on Jan 2, 2006, 10:18am

This is the stupidest idea I’ve ever heard of. It’s difficult to protect your earnings during marriage, and it’s impossible to protect yourself against child support, but pre-marital assets are easy to protect with a pre-nup, and that will get upheld in any state, including California.

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Re: Hiding assets prior to marriage
Post by guest on Jan 2, 2006, 10:46am

JimP, not as easy in the real world. I’ve heard, your pre-marriage separate bank account is considered marital property if you even pay ONE CENT from that account towards something marital. eg: Buy toast ONCE with that account, and it’s 50% hers. Buy a house with your money. She even paints one room, it’s 50% hers. True?

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Re: Hiding assets prior to marriage
Post by JimP on Jan 2, 2006, 10:57am

Jan 2, 2006, 10:46am, guest wrote:JimP, not as easy in the real world. I’ve heard, your pre-marriage separate bank account is considered marital property if you even pay ONE CENT from that account towards something marital. eg: Buy toast ONCE with that account, and it’s 50% hers. Buy a house with your money. She even paints one room, it’s 50% hers. True?

This is all true, but hiding money is a hell of a lot more difficult than not co-mingling assets, and it’s illegal too.

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Re: Hiding assets prior to marriage
Post by sirlancelot on Jan 2, 2006, 12:15pm

Just don’t get married. It’s the only fool-proof way to avoid getting financially shafted by some bitch.
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Re: Hiding assets prior to marriage
Post by morpheus on Jan 3, 2006, 2:52am

Here is an interesting take on the topic from this blog post:

Mailvox: Don’t get fooled again

“There are a number of ways to protect yourself, of course. Overseas investments are not only wise from a financial point of view, but will almost surely reduce the risk of losing everything in a divorce. If the woman has no idea where the money is and knows that the minute she files, you’re off to the Cayman Islands, she’s probably going to think twice before cutting her financial throat. Even if you’re not rich, you can use an offshore account as a bargaining chip; after all, she doesn’t need to know that there’s only $500.00 in your Bahamian account until after she trades you custody of the kids for it.”

“This isn’t to say that you should behave in a Machiavellian manner from the first day of the honeymoon – although if you are diving in the Caymans, why not open an account there while you’re at it – but a divorce seldom comes out of nowhere. The time to begin defensive operations is when the signs start appearing, not when the papers get served.”

He then goes on to list some telltale signs of eminent divorce. Check the full post.
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Re: Hiding assets prior to marriage
Post by Lee on Jan 3, 2006, 3:15am

Jan 2, 2006, 2:59am, Niall NLIT wrote:2. They must be untraceable. That means cash, gold, diamonds, etc held in a lock box out of your normal area and not signed for under your own name or a jurisdiction outside US such as Mexico. I would have no problem with a lock box in a Mexican bank, transporting the valuables there may be another issue.

I know of no problem transporting them to Mx. Put them in a back pack, and walk across the border. There is no one there to stop you or ask questions. Take a taxi to your lock box locale. Put them in the bank.

Now as to how you can get them when they are in Mx, and whether you can withdrawal all or part, or if they can be seized outright, that is another matter.
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Re: Hiding assets prior to marriage
Post by Never Again on Jan 3, 2006, 8:44am

The BEST thing to do is set up a TRUST.

Date it NEVER commingle/transmutate/convey assets that are community into or from it. Keep it seperate and keep records.

IT is presumed community until it is successfully refuted to be seperate.

The person who owns the TRUST gets the appreciation because in theory it was theirs before the marriage and NEVER commingled/transmutated community money into or from it.

BUT, here’s the catch depending on the amount it may also be used to show standard of living, lifestyle and ASSETS of value to determine her new Spousal Support or Child Support amount.

That’s the CATCH 22 or Double Edged Sword you’re up against…..

This is how WEALTHY people keep their wealth BUT do pay a consequence (Spousal and Child Support) for that lifestyle and asset value.

HTH YMMV
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Re: Hiding assets prior to marriage
Post by TyHigs on Jan 3, 2006, 8:57am

NeverAgain, I dont think you can even create a US trust for yourself. That’s called a self-asset protection trust. They are new law in NV, DE, but they have not been tested in divorce. Ordinarily, any trust you set up for yourself, even before marriage, is commingled.

There is a way around it. YOUR PARENTS have to set the trust up for you, before you get married. Even in divorce, your wife cant take shit that is owned by the trust.

So first, you’d need an heir to protect your money with (or have your dad/grand dad do it now).
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Re: Hiding assets prior to marriage
Post by Never Again on Jan 3, 2006, 10:47am

TY,
partially true and let me clarify.
If you set up a TRUST e.g. The Ty Higs Trust from separate property, assets etc. that is your separate property. Of course title would be in your name solely etc.

What is at risk is the INCOME generated from that trust from the date of marriage.

The asset is protected provided NO money is used or commingled or transmutated to PAY any fees, re-fi’s maintenance etc.. It NEEDS to be kept totally separate. It does take some know how and work but that is the reason people with wealth pay people to protect their assets.

E.G.

If your re-fi a property and spend the money on that re-fi towards the community it could be argued that you commingled or transmutated an asset at that point. be VERY careful about doing this.

It is complicated and worth it if you have sizable assets….

IMHO YMMV…
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Re: Hiding assets prior to marriage
Post by Never Again on Jan 3, 2006, 3:24pm

BTW,
There is NO LAW against keeping your separate property separate.

Whatever you accumulate BEFORE your marriage is SEPARATE.

Now, the trick is keeping it that way or documenting that. Pictures of personal property, jewelry, declarations, bank statements, affidavits, appraisals etc et alia.

The TRICK is refraining from USING the asset(s) and commingling/transmutating/conveying it into a community asset.

HTH YMMV
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Re: Hiding assets prior to marriage
Post by MC Larry on Jan 3, 2006, 3:26pm

“Since feminism’s spreading incredible hate dissing men/
****** * getting married that depends/
first I get a prenup to see if she really loves me
get a LLC, and tie my assets to the company”

(a really dope emcee said this)
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Re: Hiding assets prior to marriage
Post by uzername on Jan 3, 2006, 6:48pm

The operative word in this stuff is…. IF.

IF you get found out.

Its one thing to suspect, its another too prove.
Its one thing to prosecute, its another to collect.

The world is a big place but some people’s mouths are bigger. Loose lips….
Less is more.

There are plenty of ways to ASSet protect. Foreign superannuation/retirement/life insurance policies are great measures that l believe are creditor proof.

The only sure fire method l know of for asset protection is to fly solo and below the radar. In other words… dont-marry.
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Re: Hiding assets prior to marriage
Post by uzername on Jan 5, 2006, 4:43am

Some questions about trusts.

My reading of the above regarding trusts is that the income stream from a trust can contribute to future support determinations. Also that the value of the trust will have implications.

Is it not possible to evade the liability potential thru a discretionary trust, where beneficiaries can be removed at the hand of the trustee?

Would it not be possible to move trust income thru a variety of interposed entities like another trust or company before the dough gets to a beneficiary? Therefore breaking the direct nexus between income and assets? Or do the courts ‘look thru the veil’ and put substance b4 form?

Regarding co-mingling. My understanding is, notwithstanding the legal structure holding an asset, if a spouse physically contributes to the establishment/upkeep/maintenance of an asset then that implies an equitable interest. For example if she helps me paint the walls for a few hours in a renovation that took me say 200hrs, she can make a claim. If she comes out with me once in a blue moon and pulls weeds for half an hour, she can make a claim.

If l make a few phone calls (and never anything else) to replace a hot water service in her investment property, then l can make a claim. If l pour coffees for an hour once in a while at her coffee shop, l can make a claim.

Its very farked up in my view. This stuff doesn’t just apply to intimate relationships. Everyone else with whom we cross paths can effectively go for a grab under similar circumstances. It can be quite an opportunistic dog-eat-dog world out their at times.

Watch your arse people.
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Re: Hiding assets prior to marriage
Post by TyHigs on Jan 5, 2006, 7:40am

Jan 3, 2006, 3:26pm, MC Larry wrote:”Since feminism’s spreading incredible hate dissing men/****** * getting married that depends/
first I get a prenup to see if she really loves me
get a LLC, and tie my assets to the company”

(a really dope emcee said this)

An LLC is a closely held corporation. Even if you create it before you met her, after you marry her, she’s entitled to AT LEAST 25% and possibly 50% of the increase in value of that LLC. And if you are using your personal income to put into that LLC while married, you might as well hand the LLC directly over to her, cause your salary is marital property.

There’s no way around this shit. NONE!
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Re: Hiding assets prior to marriage
Post by Never Again on Jan 5, 2006, 8:14am

Uzername writes :

“Some questions about trusts.

My reading of the above regarding trusts is that the income stream from a trust can contribute to future support determinations. Also that the value of the trust will have implications.

Is it not possible to evade the liability potential thru a discretionary trust, where beneficiaries can be removed at the hand of the trustee?

Would it not be possible to move trust income thru a variety of interposed entities like another trust or company before the dough gets to a beneficiary? Therefore breaking the direct nexus between income and assets? Or do the courts ‘look thru the veil’ and put substance b4 form?

Regarding co-mingling. My understanding is, notwithstanding the legal structure holding an asset, if a spouse physically contributes to the establishment/upkeep/maintenance of an asset then that implies an equitable interest. For example if she helps me paint the walls for a few hours in a renovation that took me say 200hrs, she can make a claim. If she comes out with me once in a blue moon and pulls weeds for half an hour, she can make a claim.

If l make a few phone calls (and never anything else) to replace a hot water service in her investment property, then l can make a claim. If l pour coffees for an hour once in a while at her coffee shop, l can make a claim.

Its very farked up in my view. This stuff doesnt just apply to intimate relationships. Everyone else with whom we cross paths can effectively go for a grab under similar circumstances. It can be quite an opportunistic dog-eat-dog world out their at times.

Watch your arse people.”

Regardless of how the trust is setup :
As Ty said and I have said previously WHATEVER the income is/was she is entitleed to as much as 50% period.

Yes it is possible to MOVE/CONVERT asset (earnings) from trust XYZ to TRUST AAA and it is done all the time. TRUST AAA may show a loss and then you have efficaciously accomplished your mission. BUT where did that money go ? salary ? trips to Puerto Rico, Caymen Island accountants ? you get the picture … A Forensic will easily lead to a trail. And that trail needs to be addressed and accounted for. Yes, They will and do “pierce the corporate veil” all the time….Remember, intentional fraud CAN be criminal…..

Your concept of commingling is correct. YOU’RE FUCKED.
YOU MUST keep it separate all the way. YOU must designate and only pay/sustain/maintain it with it’s own separate revenue/income/admin fees etc….Another words don’t touch it and leave it the FUCK alone.

A forensic accounting is FUCKED, wicked and they will look for a nats ass and find it. Been there done that !

It’s worth it if you have sizable assets.

Regarding REAL property :
She will make a claim if you FART and she has to smell it as community property…

The way to protect it is : Taking title as your sole and separate property before or EVEN after marriage. If you inherit it or, buy from inheritance keeping it separate etc….) She needs to sign a quit claim Deed if you’re married (does not if you acquired it before marriage) and you acquire it through Gift, Bequest or inheritance.

Again make no contributions that are community to it, payment to it etc….. Otherwise she will make a community claim.

The other way to LIMIT your exposure in property is “Tenants in Common” You call out your separate property interests and that is all she is entitled to. IN my case it was 76% me and 24% her. ALL she COULD get was 24% of that assets value. Which was 24% of NET equity.

HTH….

TY Higs writes :

“An LLC is a closely held corporation. Even if you create it before you met her, after you marry her, she’s entitled to AT LEAST 25% and possibly 50% of the increase in value of that LLC. And if you are using your personal income to put into that LLC while married, you might as well hand the LLC directly over to her, cause your salary is marital property.”

You are 100% correct

“There’s no way around this shit. NONE!”

You are incorrect here. There are ways around it. They have to be SQUEAKY clean or cleverly convoluted that look clean on paper.

Asset protection is a specialized field and that is why Asset Protection Specialists are paid handsomely. Depends on your assets and LEVEL you are willing/want to go to.

I knew I had a CUNT and Cash Out Princess so I CMA (Covered My Ass) I’m smarter, know more, better judge of people and their character, don’t feel slighted because I saw it coming and paid attention.

Be smart and do it right you’ll survive w/ minimal impact, do it sloppy or live in denial and you’ll regret it and live with it forever….. Your choice but blame yourself if you don’t do something, don’t blame them or the system and go to victim…..

My theory about relationships and divorce is NOW this…
The one who has less WILL ALWAYS try to take from the one who has more….

It’s a “EAT WHAT YOU KILL WORLD OUT THERE NOW” for sure….

AND WOMAN GET IT BELIEVE ME, THEY KNOW ….

SO BUCK UP AND GET WITH THE PROGRAM ….

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Re: Hiding assets prior to marriage
Post by uzername on Jan 6, 2006, 11:30pm

There is one sure fire and virtually incontrovertible way to break an audit trail… convert to CASH or cash convertibles along the way.

Combine that with…
1. not leaving any paper work around
2. using an intermediary such as a trusted party, a legally issued alternate identity (like foreign citizenship/passport in a culturally appropriate nom-de-plum) or a nominee (lawyer/accountant)
3. keeping one’s mouth SHUT
4. putting geographic distance and borders between you and your ASSets.

lm not trying to argue or dismiss anyone’s position here. All l am saying is that there is ALWAYS a solution to a problem. It may not be the best solution but it may be the only one. It may also be a very simple one that circumvents legal complexities. Also, the law and all its scribes will say one thing and often appear as an obstacle, but there is ALWAYS a loophole or work around.

Let YOUR conscience guide you and let your survival instinct guide your conscience.

The only real solutions to ASSet protection regarding matrimoney are
1. marry someone with more than you
2. marry an absolute saint who would never make an unearnt claim of entitlement or
3. dontmarry (nor cohabitate)

Cheers.
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Re: Hiding assets prior to marriage
Post by Never Again on Jan 7, 2006, 12:15am

Uzername is correct…

CASH is KING and You cannot trace it period done correctly.
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Re: Hiding assets prior to marriage
Post by kenbarbie on Jan 7, 2006, 6:43pm

1. NEVER EVER marry. YOU ARE A FUCKING IDIOT if you marry an AW.

2. NEVER EVER have a joint credit card or bank account or anything that indicates she lives at your place.
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Written by dontmarry

May 23, 2007 at 11:52 am

One Response

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  1. Have a real life long friend.
    Buy a Fort Knox safe.
    Fill with Cash and Gold Coins.
    Don’t tell anyone.
    Never let your Bride know your real net worth. As most marriages end in divorce, you need to protect yourself.
    Once you get married, you give up half your monetary value.
    If you are worth gobs of money, you would be foolish to get married.

    Keeps Mymoney

    August 25, 2012 at 1:04 pm


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