Don’t Marry

Why Modern, Western Marriage Has Become A Bad Business Decision For Men

Views of a 40-Something Confirmed Bachelor

with 23 comments


Views of a 40-Something Confirmed Bachelor
Post by OlderBachelor on Oct 4, 2004, 11:53pm

Great diatribe! (and I do mean that in a good way) You did hit most of the possible negative outcomes of marriage for a man in America. I am 42, never married, no kids, and I wouldn’t have it any other way. In my time I have seen almost all of my High School and College friends (male and female) marry, have kids, divorce, and then marry again and then divorce again. I have started to call this “The Marriage Cycle”. I watch it all with dismay and amusement, and when they cry on my shoulder I have to say I am glad it’s not me. Unlike how a lot of media propaganda would have it, I am happier every year with my decision made during my teenage years to stay single and concentrate on my career and hobbies. Since I did stay single, I was able to afford college on my own and now have 4 degrees (Two Associates, Bachelors, and a Masters) and after working hard on my career for the last 10 years I now make real money. I own a nice condo, nice car, nice computer, and lots of other toys. Plus I date nice females every now and then (I am seeing 2 now).


I have traveled all over Europe and North America and I have lots of time to play computer games, read, study, and in general do whatever I want. I don’t have to deal with a female in my house and I don’t want to. I don’t have to deal with screaming kids and the hassles of child rearing. I will have a very nice retirement in 10 years or so and I am planning on moving to Belize or maybe the Philippines. There are lots of “married with children” guys where I work (major corporation) and you can sure as hell bet they aren’t in my financial situation and are never going to be because of the ridiculously backbreaking overhead of having a wife and kids. I live in a big city in California and a middle class life style (Mortgage on a nice house, 2 car payments, Utilities, taxes, food, etc, etc, etc) is $4000.00 a month Minimum! I whole-heartily agree with the Author that younger guys should very carefully consider your options when considering marriage. I would just give this advice: If you are married, your options are very limited and your wife will have claim on your wallet and get half of your assets in the event of a divorce. If you have kids with her, she will have claim on your wallet for 18 years – possibly more if they force you to pay for the kids’ college. If you are single, all your money is yours and you have EVERY option: Travel, Hobbies, anything you want to do. And last thing: Always remember that men get MORE attractive as they get older. Women that won’t give you the time of day at 25 will be very attentive to you when you are 40. It’s NEVER over for a man looking for a fling. So I say: Stay Single guys!

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Re: Views of a 40-Something Confirmed Bachelor
Post by The Author on Oct 5, 2004, 8:40pm

Thanks for sharing your perspective.

A few questions for you, if you have the time:

1) Did you note a common thread w/ common causes of the divorces? (Ie: Did you learn anything from witnessing so many divorces?)

2) Was there anything unique to the 2nd marriage failures? (Incorporating someone else’s kids into your life, magnified post-divorce financial stress, constant involvement with their ex-spouse, etc)

3) Did the friends regret marrying? What did they learn or vow to do differently in the future? (Swear off marriage, etc)

4) B/c of divorce, did any of the friends regret having their kids? ( I am guessing not)

5) Do you find yourself “outcast” from your friends who are busy with families? Has your free time become some kind of ironic punishment? (Too much time to 2nd guess your decisions)

6) Was there a particular period in your life that was especially trying, in terms of doubting your decisions? (Like the window of time before they all divorced and rejoined your side of the fence, when you were odd man out)
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Re: Views of a 40-Something Confirmed Bachelor
Post by The Author on Oct 5, 2004, 8:46pm

Also, how realistic is it to continue dating indefinitely? Do you feel the good times may come to an end soon?

In general, I assume one can realistically date in the age range + or – 10 years within your own age.. In your case, 32 to 52 year olds. I am sure you still find 32 year olds attractive, but what does a man do when he is 50 or 55? Do men find 40-45 year olds attractive? At what age is a woman “undatable” b/c she is an old woman? And what does a man who at that point? when he can no longer attract attractive women (besides ones that have mental instability who date 20 to 30 years their senior) Also, considering you are not a rock star or actor, where these windows of age become moot.
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Re: Views of a 40-Something Confirmed Bachelor
Post by Lee on Oct 5, 2004, 9:31pm

Quote: Also, how realistic is it to continue dating indefinitely? Do you feel the good times may come to an end soon?.

Very realistic. No, I do not feel that way.

I am 43 and was dating a 25 year old until last month.

It is possible, you just need to know what you are doing.

Eventually, when I am 65, I will be dating someone who is 35 or 36, but that is ok.

Quote: In general, I assume one can realistically date in the age range + or – 10 years within your own age…

You need to think outside the box and challenge you pre-conceptions.

Why do you believe that someone must date within +/- 10 years? Do you think that every single woman who is 18-25 only wants to date men their own age or in their early 30’s? I can assure you that there are quite a few young women who would like to date someone who is 40, 45, 50 or 55.

Quote: In your case, 32 to 52 year olds. I am sure you still find 32 year olds attractive, but what does a man do when he is 50 or 55? Do men find 40-45 year olds attractive? At what age is a woman “undatable” b/c she is an old woman? And what does a man who at that point? when he can no longer attract attractive women (besides ones that have mental instability who date 20 to 30 years their senior) Also, considering you are not a rock star or actor, where these windows of age become moot.

This is a skill that can be learned, for normal men who are not rich nor rock-star handsome.

www.steelballs.com

Good Luck!
-Lee.
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Re: Views of a 40-Something Confirmed Bachelor
Post by Zbon on Oct 5, 2004, 10:18pm

> I am 43 and was dating a 25 year old until last month.

Yes, but was she a fat, ugly 25 year old? I have never seen an attractive, healthy woman date someone 20 years older than her. Usually, it’s b/c she has some deep seated issues (just like strippers, hookers, molestation victims, etc)

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Re: Views of a 40-Something Confirmed Bachelor
Post by OlderBachelor on Oct 6, 2004, 12:19am

In answer to your questions:

1: A lot of the divorces I have seen first-hand mostly revolved around money (as in not enough) and sex (as in having it outside the marriage). I was in the Air Force for 6 years in the ‘80’s and I saw lots of good divorces there. One friend of mine came home to find his 24-year old wife in bed with the 17-year old next door neighbor’s boy (yes this was in a trailer park just outside the base). She flew into a rage and cursed him out for being a lame husband and then tossed him out. He slept on my couch for 3 weeks after that. I was in England for 2 years of my time in and also saw lots of Air Force guys marry English females and bring them home. In 5 out of the 7 cases I personally witnessed the English ladies dump their husbands shortly after their green cards came through. Later on in life working at big corps I saw lots of “We just grew apart” divorces. What did I learn from all of this? Basically, Marriage is an arrangement that is very difficult to maintain if you want love and romance.

2: Second marriages that I know personally were very stressed if children from the first marriage were present. The male financial overhead of paying for the first family stressed them too. However, one of the very few happy marriages that I personally have seen is a couple that is on their second marriage each. But it seemed to me that second marriages break up for the same reasons as first ones (Money, sex, communication).

3: Most of them saw the Divorce as a good thing and didn’t regret marrying UNLESS a vindictive ex-wife cut off a man from his kids. That’s when you hear a guy bitch and regret marriage! If nothing really bad happened (such as no contact with the kids or a really bad settlement) most of them saw it as a learning experience. Most of the people I know waited a few years and got married again. Not too many swore to never marry again.

4: No one I know or have known has regretted having kids (At least out loud). Most of the pain there is if a guy can rarely or never see them.

5: Me? An outcast? I have lots of friends and socialize 3-4 times a month with them. However it does isolate you to a degree if you aren’t married by 40. I have a very sarcastic sense of humor and am very thick-skinned and can easily deflect any “Why aren’t you married yet” questions. I have noticed that if you “Hold the hard line” and make no excuses or equivocations about your decisions in life people will just accept it and drop it. Besides 47% percent of the adult population is now unmarried (2000 US Census) – Marriage is just not a big deal anymore. It only comes up rarely in conversation anyway. I am far more interested in Politics and History and Philosophy and lots of other subjects and would rather talk about them then something like “Why aren’t you married”.

6: Fortunately for me I don’t regret never marrying. I do regret some other things I have done or didn’t do but not that. Don’t regret never having kids either. One the of big advantages Single Living is lots of time for introspection and self-examination. Since I agree with Socrates about the unexamined life I do spend some time thinking about mine.
It is a blessing and not a punishment.

7: I started out in life in a trailer park with no dad and a mom on welfare. I learned very early in life that money matters and have spent many years getting educated and working hard. I have been poor and have been, well, far from rich but comfortable and trust me being poor sucks! I have had some lean times (Try going to Grad School in the day and dispatching cabs at night) but I have never wavered on my choice not to marry. A lot of it is actually philosophically motivated. One of the first “Serious” books I read as a young man was “The Fountainhead” by Ayn Rand. Her “Ideal Man” that is an autonomous free moral agent beholden to only himself has really influenced my thinking about personal freedom. I do see myself as different and walking the road less traveled. Certainly not everyone could or even should live it as I do. Someone does have to have the babies and raise them.

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Re: Views of a 40-Something Confirmed Bachelor
Post by OlderBachelor on Oct 6, 2004, 12:42am

Oh I almost forgot! Dating!

Well, I must say if you wear nice clothes and drive a decent car and can talk a good game you won’t have any issues. This year (Remember I am 42) I have dated a 28-year old, a 34-year old and a 35-year old. I am seeing the 28-year old and the 35-year old concurrently as of Oct 1. Both are pretty and are intelligent with college educations, and I do enjoy my time with them. However I must say females have never been a priority for me. My job and my hobbies come way before any woman on my “to do” list. This may sound self-centered and selfish but . . . I AM self-centered and selfish!

“Enlightened Self-Interest” is the measure that all my actions are based on. This might sound harsh but once again I hold the hard line on it. If there does come a day that I get too old to get a date then I will read my books and maybe write my own. But it won’t be anytime soon!

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Re: Views of a 40-Something Confirmed Bachelor
Post by Lee on Oct 6, 2004, 2:15am

Quote: > I am 43 and was dating a 25 year old until last month.

Yes, but was she a fat, ugly 25 year old? I have never seen an attractive, healthy woman date someone 20 years older than her. Usually, it’s b/c she has some deep seated issues (just like strippers, hookers, molestation victims, etc)

She was quite attractive, with a very nice rack.

She had no deep seated issues, and has never had any of the careers you listed.

Age difference simply did not matter to her.

I know, it’s hard to believe, as this clashes with your worldview.

There are many men 40-65 who are dating 20somethings, and all of us get the same questions/remarks.

(Yes, I know several men who do this…)

-She has daddy issues.
-She is a goldigger.
-She was a stripper, hooker, molestation victim.

Lastly:

-I must be a dirty old man.

I suppose it is more psychologically comforting for you to assume the above, rather than the simple truth:

Some women who are 25 are dating 45 year old men, and they like it.

Many 25 year old men do not like it, as this threatens them.

C’est la vie.

-Lee.
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Re: Views of a 40-Something Confirmed Bachelor
Post by The Author on Oct 6, 2004, 3:07pm

I have never personally known a 20 something woman date someone who is 40+. Ever. This can’t be nearly as common as the media likes to pretend it is.
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Re: Views of a 40-Something Confirmed Bachelor
Post by OlderBachelor on Oct 6, 2004, 4:04pm

Where do you live? I live in a large city in California and as long as a 40-something man “Projects Affluence” it is very common here see a twenty-something on the man’s arm. I don’t have any issues getting attention from females in the 25 to 30 age bracket. For many women a man’s success is far more important than his age. If given a choice between a broke 25 year old man and a well-off 40 year old man which would you pick if you were a 25-year old woman? Remember also that females have flings with men they don’t really want to get serious with. Last thing – My Dad was 41 when he married my mother – who was 22.
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Re: Views of a 40-Something Confirmed Bachelor
Post by The Author on Oct 6, 2004, 8:31pm

Do you ever feel that these women are “after something”? vs. simply enjoying your company? IF so, does that make the experience somewhat hollow?
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Re: Views of a 40-Something Confirmed Bachelor
Post by OlderBachelor on Oct 6, 2004, 9:02pm

Well, I have read thousands of books and can converse intelligently in lots of different areas. My degrees are in Math and History and this has given me a decent base of knowledge to draw from. Plus I am pretty funny if I am in the right mood. I mostly get the feeling from my dates that they do want to hang out with me because of my personality and not because I have a decent condo. But, of course, the greatest human capacity is self-deception so maybe it is all about my money and possessions. But I only date women that are intelligent and well-read because I am not going to spend all night making erudite literary allusions and then have to explain who Raskolnikov is or what crossing the Rubicon means.

By the way, the right (meaning intelligent woman) can find this sort of educated conversation very attractive and even a sexual turn on. Also, I am enough of a pragmatist to know that everyone is after something – even if it is only conversation with someone worth talking to.

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Re: Views of a 40-Something Confirmed Bachelor
Post by Lee on Oct 7, 2004, 7:26pm

Quote: Do you ever feel that these women are “after something”? vs. simply enjoying your company?

Almost every woman on the planet is “after something”. Nearly every woman wants commitment, marriage and children if the relationship is working out.

The advantage I have is that I know what to say, what to do and how to handle the situation so that both of us have an enjoyable time as long as it lasts.

Quote: If so, does that make the experience somewhat hollow?

No, I simply know that it cannot last. Eventually she will want us to move in together, or want to be engaged, or want marriage, or want children. I am not interested in marriage at this time in my life, and that is when it usually ends.

Hollow? If you think that intensely emotional sex with someone who is 25 is ‘hollow’ then yes…

Regards,
-Lee.
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Re: Views of a 40-Something Confirmed Bachelor
Post by OlderBachelor on Oct 7, 2004, 8:20pm

I have to completely agree with Lee. A woman cannot force you to marry them or have a relationship. I too see all romantic relationships as ephemeral and as soon as they start to demand commitment or cohabitation it’s time to get off the train and date someone else. I do occasionally meet females that say they don’t want to marry and have kids but they are rare. The great thing about the modern woman is you can get a year or so of fun dating and romantic interaction before they start to make demands that the relationship “Be headed someplace”. If you keep it fun and light you will both have a good time before “Commitment” raises its ugly head. I also can’t say I feel any regret or guilt for “leading them on”. A guy like me just wants to have fun dates and good sex with a minimum of bad feelings and end it before it becomes tiresome. However, most women want to take over a man’s whole life, tell him what to do, claim his income as theirs, have him buy them an expensive ring, buy her a big house, and then impregnate her and then pay for the kids for 18 years. Just who is making the more unreasonable demand that they should feel guilty about?
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Re: Views of a 40-Something Confirmed Bachelor
Post by TA on Oct 7, 2004, 10:04pm

How do the women react when you say, “I like you. I am not seeing anyone else, I am not going anywhere, I will keep dating you, but I don’t want to marry you”. Do they seem confused? Or do you simply say you don’t want kids w/ her, and they know to move on?…

Agreed a woman can’t “force” a man to marry, but once a man is 2-3 years into a relationship, he may see no other alternative. I feel many men are “forced” into marriage b/c they do not want to lose their girlfriend.

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Re: Views of a 40-Something Confirmed Bachelor
Post by Lee on Oct 7, 2004, 11:06pm

Quote: How do the women react when you say, “I like you. I am not seeing anyone else, I am not going anywhere, I will keep dating you, but I don’t want to marry you”. Do they seem confused? Or do you simply say you don’t want kids w/ her, and they know to move on?…

You don’t say that.

Some hypotheticals:

She: Do you see the two of us having a baby someday?
Me: I don’t know OR I’d love to start a family someday OR We’ll have to see… OR I’m not looking for a girlfriend, if that’s what you mean

She: Do you see us getting married?
Me: I like to get to know someone slowly. We’ll have to wait and see…

Quote: Agreed a woman can’t “force” a man to marry, but once a man is 2-3 years into a relationship, he may see no other alternative.

That is where a 43 year old man has the advantage.

We *know* that there are many many alternatives, always.

Quote: I feel many men are “forced” into marriage b/c they do not want to lose their girlfriend.

This is simple lack of confidence. If you lose your girlfriend, simply get another.

There are 140 million females in the US. Another potential gf comes along every few mintutes.
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Re: Views of a 40-Something Confirmed Bachelor
Post by OlderBachelor on Oct 8, 2004, 1:35am

I back Lee up 100%. If a female tries to corner me with some sort of “declaration of intent to get serious” I deflect it with vague replies of “some days” and “If things work out” and “Let’s see”. That’s another reason to keep it fun and light and try not to let it get to the “Commitment” stage. So that’s not a big deal in any way. The “Agreed a woman can’t “force” a man to marry, but once a man is 2-3 years into a relationship, he may see no other alternative.” comment is very disturbing to me however. When did guys in this country start to think like this? If a person is single and in good health and has some cash there is NO limit at all to what you can do. I know friends from college and the Air Force that are all over the world doing all sorts of interesting things. Teaching English in Japan, running a scuba shop in the Philippines, being a free-lance writer in Italy (Former girlfriend of mine) to being a tour guide in the Amazon – None of these people though “I have to get married, there is no alternative”. So open your mind a little guys – It’s a great big world out there. Even if you stay in the US there are fantastic places to go and endless opportunities. Lee is dead right – 140 million some odd women just in this country alone – 3 BILLION world wide. In the city I live in alone there are over 100,000 females between 25 and 40. Why should I think “I have no alternative but to marry this one, we have been dating 2 years”. Why should any man?

Let’s all take a little test, shall we? I call this the “Are you the kind of guy that should get married” test. Consider the Nicolas Cage Movie “The Family Man”. If you haven’t seen it, rent it. After the movie, carefully consider this question: Which life do you find most appealing? Is it the rich and successful single man with no kids and lots of hot girlfriends, or is the married guy in the suburbs with the wife and kids? Then you will have your answer.

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Re: Views of a 40-Something Confirmed Bachelor
Post by 30somethingbachelor on Oct 12, 2004, 2:41am

Nice post. It gives me more confidence to finally decide if I wish to remain unattached for the rest of my life.

And yes, mid-30s guys attract 20something women noooooo problem.
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Re: Views of a 40-Something Confirmed Bachelor
Post by Marriedwell on Oct 12, 2004, 9:48am

Quote: Where do you live? I live in a large city in California and as long as a 40-something man “Projects Affluence” it is very common here see a twenty-something on the man’s arm. I don’t have any issues getting attention from females in the 25 to 30 age bracket. For many women a man’s success is far more important than his age. If given a choice between a broke 25 year old man and a well-off 40 year old man which would you pick if you were a 25-year old woman? Remember also that females have flings with men they don’t really want to get serious with. Last thing – My Dad was 41 when he married my mother – who was 22.

“Project Affluence!” That’s the difference between 20 yr old & 40 yr old! A 40 year old know when its fake!

I was 42 when I met my hubby, he was 52. He pursued me, said he dated younger women, found them to be boring & childish. He is very successful in the entertainment industry, dated in “hollywood,” many golddiggers. I had no idea who he was (I’m from the midwest) or how successful till 2 months into dating. I’m not someone who does the “how much do you make” crap. I did tell him I wanted to be married eventually on the second date & if that wasn’t his “pathway” then we should just move on. So we were married 2 years later, I appreciated that he didnt lie & waste my time. He is my first, I am considered trophy wife with brains.
I find it interesting that this board barely has any traffic.
I will say that I bet most of you have average to “lose” in a divorce. You all are coming across as very selfish, so you’re probably doing women a favor by staying single!
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Re: Views of a 40-Something Confirmed Bachelor
Post by OlderBachelor on Oct 12, 2004, 4:01pm

No, I am doing myself a favor by being single. And calling me selfish is no insult, as I am ideologically aligned with Ayn Rand and Friedrich Nietzsche. (Read “Virtue of Selfishness: A New Concept of Egoism” by Rand for more). I find it interesting that a mid-forty something women would refer to herself as a “trophy wife with brains.” I have to say I haven’t seen too many women in their forties that I would consider “Trophy Wife” Material. I also like your unfortunately common attitude that if a man doesn’t have that much money it is not a big deal if he loses it in a divorce. That’s at least what I think you are trying to say with the sentence “I will say that I bet most of you have average to “lose” in a divorce”. I have heard this before and all it demonstrates to me is typical female contempt for men that don’t earn enough for them and that a man’s money is only worth something if it is spent on a wife. I would say that if a man doesn’t have much saved up he should be MORE careful about marriage than if he was well off. And please don’t tell me “I’m not someone who does the “how much do you make” crap” as you obviously married your husband at least partly because “He is very successful in the entertainment industry”. So when you get tired of being married to your husband and call your lawyer, both of you can look forward to a lucrative settlement – and you will deserve that money because it’s all his fault anyway.
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Re: Views of a 40-Something Confirmed Bachelor
Post by The Author on Oct 12, 2004, 6:56pm

As Chris Rock said, poor people need prenups most of all. Bill Gates can lose 30% of his income, but a fast food worker can NOT afford to lose 30% of his income.

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Re: Views of a 40-Something Confirmed Bachelor
Post by Lee on Oct 13, 2004, 10:07am

Quote:

“Project Affluence!” That’s the difference between 20 yr old & 40 yr old! A 40 year old know when its fake!
I was 42 when I met my hubby, he was 52. He pursued me, said he dated younger women, found them to be boring & childish. He is very successful in the entertainment industry, dated in “hollywood,” many golddiggers. I had no idea who he was (I’m from the midwest) or how successful till 2 months into dating. I’m not someone who does the “how much do you make” crap. I did tell him I wanted to be married eventually on the second date & if that wasn’t his “pathway” then we should just move on. So we were married 2 years later, I appreciated that he didnt lie & waste my time. He is my first, I am considered trophy wife with brains.
I find it interesting that this board barely has any traffic.
I will say that I bet most of you have average to “lose” in a divorce. You all are coming across as very selfish, so you’re probably doing women a favor by staying single!

Some young women don’t look for your affluence. They simply like me, and want to date me, and the fact that I have grey hair and I am 20 years older than her is of no importance.

Quote: “Project Affluence!” That’s the difference between 20 yr old & 40 yr old! A 40 year old know when its fake!

You illustrate the problem nicely. A 40 year old woman looks for clues to see if the man is projecting affluence.

Do you know that many American Men now look for this quality in a woman, and that it is an enormous turn-off?

I just can no longer stand the financial vetting questions many AW proffer on early dates. It is repulsive and a huge turn-off.

Clue: We are not human wallets.

One of the advantages of dating younger women is that many do not care if I can provide for their fantasy life – I am not marriageable, so they just enjoy the moment.

Quote: He is my first, I am considered a trophy wife with brains.

You brought it up the subject of trophy wife, so I will run with it.

A trophy wife is in her early-mid 20’s, is very hot, hits the gym 5 times a week, has low bmi.

You are, frankly, 15 years too old to be a trophy wife.

Quote: I find it interesting that this board barely has any traffic.

I don’t. There are many other sites that have similar viewpoints to this one. That this board has not taken off yet is not an indication that the essay is untrue. Some sites (nomarriage.com for one) recommend dating women from medium sized mid-western cities to avoid the worse traits of American Women. It looks like your husband was doing this after tiring of the Wilshire Golddigger Brigade.

Quote: I will say that I bet most of you have average to “lose” in a divorce.

You reveal yourself as the money oriented, typical AW that you are. Such subtle insults and manipulation don’t faze me at all. You are transparent.

Nice try, but unlike you I don’t value myself based upon my income. That you attempted to insult some posters based upon that indicates that you do value it.

Quote: You all are coming across as very selfish, so you’re probably doing women a favor by staying single

If you married in California, you have already hit the jackpot. In 10 years you will be able to divorce your man and have him pay you for life. What a ripoff.

Why is it selfish if a man wants to keep his money, but it is not selfish if his wife takes 80% in a divorce. I bet most women who have above average to “gain” in a divorce would think they deserve it all.
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Re: Views of a 40-Something Confirmed Bachelor
Post by OlderBachelor on Oct 13, 2004, 10:34pm

If you are still thinking of getting married, read this:

Note: This is applicable in California and other community property states:

• Arizona
• Idaho
• Louisiana
• Nevada
• New Mexico
• Texas
• Washington
• Wisconsin

In other states, your mileage will vary, but if you are a man you will be hosed.

STATE OF CALIFORNIA
MARRIAGE FACT SHEET

This fact sheet is only intended to provide general information and is not intended to provide legal advice. An attorney should be consulted for answers to specific legal questions. This fact sheet complies with AB 1920, which was vetoed in 2000 by Governor Gray Davis.

Since about 50% of marriages end in divorce, persons contemplating marriage should be familiar with the laws associated with dissolutions in California.

1. PROPERTY RIGHTS

California is a community property state. This means that any assets or property acquired during the marriage will be split equally during a dissolution, regardless of whose labor acquired that assets.[1]

Separate property is property that is not divided during a dissolution. This includes assets held prior to marriage, and gifts and inheritance received during marriage. However, separate property may convert to community property if it is placed in a joint account or used to purchase community property.[2]

2. PREMARITAL AGREEMENTS

A premarital agreement can protect assets from community property distribution. An agreement is only valid if each party is represented by their own attorney.[3] Even then, family court has discretion to void portions of agreements it finds were unfair.[4] Note: a premarital agreement cannot modify child or spousal support obligations.

3. FINANCIAL OBLIGATIONS

During marriage each party is obligated to the debts assumed by the other party, regardless of whether they approved of the expenditures. Neither party may hide assets or expenditures from the other during a marriage. A detailed financial disclosure, including bank statements and tax returns, must be submitted to the court prior to a dissolution. These documents become a matter of public record.

4. SPOUSAL SUPPORT

The obligation to support a spouse at the “standard of living established during the marriage” does not terminate with a dissolution. Family court has wide discretion in setting spousal support.[5] When a standard of living is augmented by spending the inheritance or assets of one party, spousal support can exceed the earnings of the payer.[6] A marriage of ten years or longer can incur a lifetime support obligation.

5. CHILD SUPPORT

The amount of a child support order is set by a guideline formula of about 25% of income for one child and 40% of income for two or more children.[7] If family court believes the noncustodial parent is not earning at their capacity, the court may impute income to increase these percentages.[8] In addition to the base guidelines above, the court may order additional support for daycare and medical insurance in expenses. The actual costs of supporting the children are irrelevant to the amount of the support order.

6. DOMESTIC VIOLENCE

California has zero tolerance for domestic violence. The Violence Against Women’s Act has instituted a mandatory arrest policy for alleged abuse. Abuse includes not only striking, but any action which causes fear in a spouse, such as yelling or breaking items. Family court may issue a restraining order without any burden of proof that allegations are true. Once issued, the order becomes a presumption that the complaining party should have sole custody of the children, and provides for immediate incarceration without right to a jury trial for phoning, mailing, or coming within a specified distance of the other party or one’s children.[9] These restrictions are independent of acquittal of any related criminal charge.

The Judicial Council has prepared an informational booklet that provides more details on this topic.

7. SPOUSAL RAPE

Rape is punishable by imprisonment in the state prison for three, six, or eight years.[10] Any unconsentual act against a spouse — whether by force, duress, or intoxication — is rape.

8. COST OF DIVORCE

A typical divorce lawyer costs $200 per hour. The cost of a contested divorce can range from $10,000 to $50,000, or more. If there is an income disparity between the parties, the court can order one party to pay the legal expenses of the other party.

TEXT

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Re: Views of a 40-Something Confirmed Bachelor
Post by The Author on Oct 14, 2004, 6:57pm

WOW. This deserves it own link off the main essay. Thanks.
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Re: Views of a 40-Something Confirmed Bachelor
Post by OlderBachelor on Oct 19, 2004, 4:17pm

This was on Dr Phil a few days ago. Pay close attention to what Nicole says:

“When I walked down the aisle to marry Jack, I believed that I was walking into a wonderful life with financial security,” says Nicole, who has been married to Jack for nine months and is a stay-at-home mom to their 5-month-old daughter. “He promised me a nice house, a couple of nice cars, weekend getaways whenever we wanted.” But that’s not what she’s getting. Their credit cards are maxed out, their car was repossessed, and they are about to file for bankruptcy.

“Nicole’s lifestyle expectations are pretty high,” says Jack, who showed Nicole a whirlwind, romantic lifestyle of shopping in Beverly Hills, traveling to exotic places, and eating in fancy restaurants while they were dating, but now can’t afford to do any of that. “We’re so short on money that we’re returning items in order to buy things that we need on a day-to-day basis.”

“I felt that this was definitely the life I wanted to live forever,” Nicole confesses. “I felt so pampered. Now it’s all disappeared.” She says she feels misled and didn’t realize Jack couldn’t afford any of it. They are borrowing an old Volvo that she is embarrassed to be driving, she hasn’t gotten her hair done in six months, and is not able to afford her bi-monthly massages and waxings. “I love Jack, but I can’t take this much longer. This is definitely not the type of life that I want. Dr. Phil, can you please help us?” Nicole asks.

Dr. Phil asks Nicole what her motive was for marrying Jack.

“Besides that fact that we were very much in love, we did have a little baby on the way,” she says.

Dr. Phil points out that Nicole was married before and she ended that marriage because she was looking for someone “more lucrative” than her first husband.

She agrees. “In my first marriage I didn’t have the life that I had hoped for. When I got married again, I was hoping for a better life,” she says.

Dr. Phil asks Jack for his opinion.

“When we met, the love that we had for each other was just absolutely incredible and I wanted to do everything that I possibly could for her, and that meant going the extra mile,” he tells Dr. Phil. “That meant putting things on credit cards, just spoiling her to death and doing what she needed and what she really wanted. I didn’t know that so much of her happiness seemed to lie on the financial security.”

“Apparently you did know that because you didn’t have enough confidence in yourself and your ability to win her over and make her happy, that you spent yourself totally into debt in order to insure that you could meet her expectations. Isn’t that right?” Dr. Phil retorts, and Jack agrees. “Do you really think that’s how people live their whole lives?” Dr. Phil asks Nicole, referring to their hot air balloon adventure, safari vacation and champagne toasts during their courtship.

“I think your expectancies are really unbelievable,” Dr. Phil tells Nicole, pointing out that she is humiliated to drive an old Volvo. “If I was going to be embarrassed, I don’t think it would be about that. I think it would maybe be about the fact that you’re saying, ‘I was looking for a more lucrative deal and you ain’t cash flowing like I thought you were.’ Do you think that’s a reasonable approach to marriage?”

“No, and there are other reasons why I married him. He’s a wonderful, wonderful husband. He takes care of me and everything, but I was just hoping for a better life financially. Looking for more security,” she says.

“Didn’t you kind of bait and switch this deal?” Dr. Phil asks Jack.

“I thought that we would be able to maintain that,” Jack says. He explains that when they first got married he was changing jobs and they didn’t anticipate Nicole staying home with the baby, and therefore losing her income.

Dr. Phil points out that they are now having problems with their sex life.

“I find that when I’m really upset and I’m hurt, and it’s just piling up and piling up, I just lash out and I get very verbal. And it tends to hurt his feelings,” Nicole admits.

“What do you say to him?” Dr. Phil inquires.

“Things like, ‘I should have never have married you,’ ‘What did I get myself into …'”

“What do you want?” Dr. Phil asks her.

“I just want to feel that magic again that we used to feel,” Nicole says.

“Do you need that lifestyle in order to feel that?” Dr. Phil continues.

“The lifestyle would help,” Nicole admits. “I think the fact that we don’t have the lifestyle we were used to, that we started out with and the lifestyle that we were expecting, puts a strain on our relationship so then we’re fighting and we’re stressed, then there’s no connection.”

“So if that doesn’t change, you want out?” Dr. Phil asks.

“There are many times when I just want out. I think about it a lot,” she confirms.
Jack doesn’t agree. “I really want to save this and do whatever I need to do to make this work,” he says.

“Here’s the reality,” Dr. Phil tells them. “You guys have hit the wall financially … This is going to be a long climb out of it.”

“I just want us to be connecting again, despite the money. I don’t want the money to interfere with our passion,” Nicole says.

“Well, that won’t happen because there’s not any,” Dr. Phil jokes. He tells them that they are going to have to start at the beginning and say to each other, “‘We’re going to have to build this marriage on a partnership. We’re going to have to build this marriage on commitment and love and mutual support, commitment to our child and creating a life together’ … And that’s going to take patience and maturity and sacrifice. Are those words in your vocabulary?” he asks Nicole.

“I’m used to being pampered …” Nicole replies.

And people wonder why I have never married.

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Re: Views of a 40-Something Confirmed Bachelor
Post by The Author on Oct 19, 2004, 5:16pm

Jack is a moron.
And Nicole is a prostitute.
2 idiots with a kid.
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Re: Views of a 40-Something Confirmed Bachelor
Post by The Author on Oct 19, 2004, 5:17pm

Moral: NEVER EVER fake who you are.

That marriage is already a dead man walking, in under a year.

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Re: Views of a 40-Something Confirmed Bachelor
Post by you guys are too much on Oct 27, 2004, 4:10am

Yes, Lee, you are probably a dirty old man.

But at least you’re honest, intelligent, and know your own mind. That’s more than I can say for most of the guys posting here.
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Re: Views of a 40-Something Confirmed Bachelor
Post by teflon52 on Oct 27, 2004, 8:45am

Instead of just insulting the men here who have a different POV from yours- why don’t you try making an actual point?
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Re: Views of a 40-Something Confirmed Bachelor
Post by OlderBachelor on Oct 27, 2004, 4:16pm

So now guys in their EARLY forties that enjoy the company of females in their mid twenties are now “Dirty Old Men”. Well, judging from the celebrity marriages lately we have LOTS of company:

Nicolas Cage (Age 40) married Alice Kim (Age 20)

Billy Joel (Age 55) Married Kate Lee (Age 23)

Kevin Costner (Age 49) Married Christine Baumgartner (Age 30)

Are these guys “Dirty Old Men” too?

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Re: Views of a 40-Something Confirmed Bachelor
Post by Lee on Oct 27, 2004, 8:28pm

His reply is to be expected.

When confronted with an individual that has the balls to act counter to societal pressures, and act as his own person, manipulation and name-calling are the only weapons left in the arsenal.

I do appreciate the last sentence.
Thanks for the compliment.

The DOM snipe?

I simply no longer care.

I will continue to act in a manner that befits my happiness.

Cheers,
-Lee.
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Re: Views of a 40-Something Confirmed Bachelor
Post by Niall on Nov 2, 2004, 11:13am

Hi,

I’ve just found this site and I’m just starting to review and enjoy its contents.

I too am 42 but divorced about 10 years ago, at a time when I had few assets to lose. I found in court that men have no rights, that pre-nuptual agreements are not worth the paper they are written on and that the courts treat women like some fragile precious species that needs protecting at all costs (so much for female equality). Luckily we had no children so my ex was simply given all that we had and I walked away.

10 years later I am successful and relatively wealthy. I would no more get married again than I would put my hand in a working blender. The politicians are waking up to the fact that a marriage strike is in force and are now trying to persuade us that somehow it is our ‘duty’ to marry and procreate. Screw that, even up the deal in court for men and we may be able to talk, until then fergeddabautit!
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Re: Views of a 40-Something Confirmed Bachelor
Post by another confirmed bachelor on Nov 10, 2004, 9:28am

You forgot one thing, guys.

In the state of California, domestic violence is explicitly defined as violence against women or minor children.

Violence against men is not legally defined as “domestic violence”, hence it is harder to get a restraining order, etc., if your wife is the aggressor.

Stay single. Embrace globalization. There are women all over the world who would love to be with you, but without the rancor and greed of the typical American woman.

DOn’t end up being an idiot who’s living with a prostitute.
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Re: Views of a 40-Something Confirmed Bachelor
Post by SoCalPolki101 on Nov 10, 2004, 1:28pm

In California the three golden words are “he pushed me”.

No need to have any physical evidence or marks or scratches or bruises. A woman just needs to call the cops and say those three words and the man is toast.

The procedure is that the prosecutor will offer you 0 months in jail if you admit it, or 3-6 months in jail if you go to trial.

If the man admits guilt, her lawyer then sits down with her and decides what kind of an financial arrangement she would like to dictate. Also, she then has the option of hiring security or escort personnel to transfer children between homes if there are any.

Also, while we’re on the subject.

Very good advice can be found in the black book on this topic. www.howtosucceedwithwomen.com

These boys urge you to “Leave immediately and don’t look back. ” if a woman assaults you. Don’t go back to get your stuff, have someone else, preferably a woman friend, go get anything that was left behind for you.

Good advice that I got from the cops when I was beat up by my wife, who I had kid with, and I could not easily leave without divorce is as follows.

If you’re a man, do not call the cops on site because they automatically must arrest the man. Go to the police station and show them your physical evidence. Let them go to the woman’s house or apartment and arrest her. This is what the cops suggest you should do.

By the way, the reason I went to the cops with bruises and scratches to ask was because previously, when I called the cops, they arrested me, the man. Even
though I called them to say that I was beaten up. They made up some false charge. They said I was intoxicated. Which was a subjective judgment call. Then in the station the alko meter registered zero. They let me go in the morning.

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Re: Views of a 40-Something Confirmed Bachelor
Post by SoCalPolki101 on Nov 10, 2004, 1:38pm

Quote: There are women all over the world who would love to be with you, but without the rancor and greed of the typical American woman.

If you want to bring the woman back into the US, you’ll have to marry her.

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Re: Views of a 40-Something Confirmed Bachelor
Post by OlderBachelor on Nov 22, 2004, 10:53pm

Check out this fun personal ad.
I think I will give is girl a call:

Basic Facts:
Age: 22
The Bad:
I have had a very hard life. I was badly abused by my parents until the age of 15. When I was 15, I was put into a group homes for adolescents because I was very bratty and rebellious. I have low self-esteem, abandonment issues, can be overly emotional and insecure. I have a compulsive over-eating problem that can get worse when I am upset, and I do not know how to drive. I become scared or depressed very easily, and can cry at the drop of a dime if we get into a fight. I am a size 14/16 and need to lose 40-50 lbs. I need a man that is patient, understanding, open-minded, preferably nurturing and loving that can handle a sad wretch like me. I can also be egotistical, and materialistic. I loovvve shopping, and romantic “chick-flicks”. I talk alot, and can sometimes be catty and gossipy. I hate it when men just want sex from me. I want a relationship.

The Good:
I am goal-driven. I will be studying to become a Nurse (LVN) next January. I wish to leave my sad past behind for a happy, successful future– maybe a marriage an family someday? I actually enjoy working out, and love the outdoors. Hiking in the mountains, swimming in the ocean, and starlight walks make me happy. I love exploring new places. I can learn how to speak almost any language, and can adapt to almost any culture. I have a beautiful singing voice, and enjoy writing poetry and short stories. I am a die hard romantic. I love animals, babies, and elderly people. I am classically beautiful. I guess I can be described as a cross between Kate Winslet and that chick who played Trinity in The Matrix– with a Botticelli body. I am also a kid at heart, or can be an old woman. I love Hindi films.

So, if you are between the ages of 23-35, preferably no children, very single, attractive, and creative- I would like to get to know you. No criminals, old men, perverts, drug addicts, alcoholics, wife-beaters, thugs, or people without jobs allowed in my life.

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Re: Views of a 40-Something Confirmed Bachelor
Post by OlderBachelor on Nov 22, 2004, 10:58pm

Oh this one is good too. She has not one but TWO STD’s:

I need to start out by telling you I have herpes and hep c. If this doesnt scare you away then thats really great. I say this because I want to be honest and dont want to have to spring this on you later. I am not looking for sex, or a no strings attached relationship Iam looking for a long term relationship hopefully ending in marriage and a family. If you are a man who has a job, is honest, can support himself, who doesnt have an anger problem, and treats women like there supposed to be treated. I would love to hear from you. I have a great job, make good money, im a really cool girl, and am very non judgmental. I love to go on road trips, get massages, cook, sports games, music, hiking, movies etc… I have a great family and we are very close. I am moving to sac in a week and im going to buy a home, right now i live in the bay area. If you think i might be something you would be interested in please write me hope to hear form you soon…

I love the high-quality babes in the personals!

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Re: Views of a 40-Something Confirmed Bachelor
Post by OlderBachelor on Nov 22, 2004, 11:07pm

One more!

I am a 40 yo single Black women. I am a conservative professional by day, and a woman at night. I prefer Black men, but try to be open to the possibilities brought my way. I stand 5’10” and weigh 250#.

I love to listen to good music, watch movies and TV, and engage in stimulating conversation. I desire a man who’s easy on the eyes, calm in spirit, intelligent, good natured, humorous, drug and disease free, has clean hygiene, and stable (mentally, physically, and financially).

I am interested in a physical relationship that may lead to a possible LTR if mutually beneficial.

Reply if interested…GOOD LUCK

One of the best things about being a somewhat successful single man at 42 means I don’t have to date women like this.
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Re: Views of a 40-Something Confirmed Bachelor
Post by Knight40 on Dec 17, 2004, 7:52pm

Once again, the pro male posters are spot on accurate.

If the marriage and divorce laws in this country are a complete joke.

A prenup is completely useless in a court of law if the Judge decides to hack it too pieces.

Since states get a certain percentage of every dollar the man pays depending on alimony, kids etc, they have every incentive to lambast the man financially.

The marriage vows are a complete joke, as you are making promises you (women) can never keep in real life.

First of all, if the AW where serious about so called “equal rights” then there would be an uproar by fems because the current divorce law is anything but “equal”

You don’t have to be a rocket scientist to review stats and talk to men in your lives and listen to their experiences.

Marriage and divorce is a no win situation for the man, and that is a fact, unless you are the lucky 01% who does manage to find a sensible grounded women who is not a gold digger.

Please…..do not say women are not gold diggers, you are talking to the wrong group here, as we have seen and had experiences and talked to other men who have also had many experiences.

Women want a above average lifestyle and kids most all of the time, with rare exceptions.

The deeper issues are societal, search the web for Jiddu krishnamurti, and read some of his works.

Marriage and divorce are symptoms of some deeper problems.

Also remember, even the remaining people who are married, how many are happy? cannot get divorced because they cannot afford too? how many of those remaining are just roommates living together,? etc.

We can speculate all night about additional reason why marriage and divorce is not good.

I think all the facts speak for themselves, and that any reasonably intelligent man can see for himself what the possible implication are for marriage in this day and age.

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Re: Views of a 40-Something Confirmed Bachelor
Post by prejudice on Dec 30, 2004, 2:14am

Overt prejudice based on age is the last politically correct and socially sanctioned form of bigotry.

Age, like race and gender are beyond one’s control. Overt prejudice of this nature says nothing about the subject of said prejudice and speaks volumes about the promulgator of that prejudice. If people who are years apart are happy with one another, then why should anyone else give a rats.

Next you will be saying blacks shouldn’t marry whites, jews shouldn’t marry moslems and catholics shouldn’t get with protestants.

Its is interesting how many make the un-invited, self-righteous and accusatory observation of selfishness toward those who fly solo. Sometimes l think that it is merely resentment. The sort of resentment that a prisoner might develop for those who are free.

Everyone is selfish. l too agree with Rand’s fundamental premises of rational self interest. Society has conveniently disguised and denied the inherent self interest that the majority pursue through socially sanctioned structures.

When one goes into a relationship, like marriage, the last question pondered is ‘how can l enhance that person’s life?’ The fundamental decision or motivation is how does that person enhance me and my aspirations. That is entirely selfish… and entirely healthy. If you don’t put yourself first then you die. When you are dead, you are no good to anyone, least of all those who are dependent upon you.

When one decides to have children, the wishes of the unborn cannot be consulted. Logically. The decision to have children is about how they enhance your life and projecting your genes into the future. It is the closest we come to immortality, which is about as egocentric (selfish?) as one can get.

Self interest or selfishness is not an inherently bad thing. Its just one of those words that are used to manipulate others and a word to which folks dont give lucid, independent thought. Again, if you dont put yourself first, then you are dead. Apart from being no good to anyone when you are dead, how can one logically and lucidly rationalise martyrdom. It contradicts the essence of life… which is simply to live.
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Re: Views of a 40-Something Confirmed Bachelor
Post by single mom guest on Jan 14, 2005, 1:54am

Interesting post. I’m not here to flame or troll…..just a few questions and comments.

First, I don’t see anything wrong with not wanting to marry. To each his own. However, I do have a problem with not being honest with someone about your intentions upfront. That selfishness only causes potential for the unnecessary grief of someone else. No need to reply to that comment. I’m not interested in how someone justifies those actions and I’ll rebut it for you. It’s the other persons decision to get emotionally involved……….

While I have seen a variety of reasons for staying single, most apply to a woman being “needy or greedy”. Why is it presumed women fall into these two categories. Is it really that black and white to the men posting here?

I’ve yet to see someone describe this type of relationship. Man has his money, his toys and his interests. Woman is equally successful and provides for herself. They both enjoy interests which they share together, as well as interests they enjoy individually. Kids are grown and out of the house….Companionship……..

I don’t see this type of relationship often, but I have seen it.

I can’t help but think some of the 40’ish (give or take) plus age group, both men and women, struggle with the changing gender roles as of the last few decades resulting in the decline of the traditional family…….

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Re: Views of a 40-Something Confirmed Bachelor
Post by smarterthanaverage on Jan 14, 2005, 1:19pm

First I just found this site and thank you to those who provide another venue to share their truths and experiences.

A little background about myself. I’m a happy, positive, healthy, vibrant, employed 47 year old male who was married for 12 years and have one daughter 11. I’ve been divorced for over two years and would never contemplate ever marrying again unless the following conditions were met. One the woman would have equal or greater assets than mine period. Two Pre Nep for both parties. I’m an investigator and also work in the protection field. I have seen it all. Cheating husbands, wives etc et al….
Been through a 730 custody evaluation (and won) been the victim of the system with it’s arbitrary convoluted laws, excessive overbilling by attorney’s and their cohorts, abusive attorney practices that are taught not to become involved and desensitized via “mood court” associates et et al… been all through the psychological mill, therapists, specialists et al. Know all the BS woman pull and have some truths I will share.

The contract is at best a poor contract for the typical male. Women complain of equal rights and in reality it is far more than 50% that men do and give. have been a bachelor before my marriage and am now and I would far rather be a stay at home parent than the bread winner parent. Way less work about 20 to 40% in my opinion. I raise my daughter and it no where near costs what the disomaster factors. The female generally play the victim role and milk it to the hilt. No one cares in the legal system and there is complete apathy. No real true reform for mens rights have really been implemented by anyone. Other men are complete idiots and get plugged into the program by a skilled and capable manipulative woman who is adroit at manipulating men usually through SEX and stroking their EGO. There are more books written about “How to catch the man of your dreams than there are about the reality of marriage form a Man’s perspective. Men are far to protective of women and usually go right to the protector role for woman w/o evidence of abuse but just on the woman’s word..

Children are used as barganing and maipulative entities instead of the precious innocent souls they really are. It’s ALL about MONEY and it is becomming increasingly apparant. I believe it eventually will be exposed for more than it is already and women will evenually have to reconcile with the truth. Who knows when the cathartic epiphany will reavel itself. It is a scam and many woman do not have the integrity and character from what I have seen to stick it out these days. The perfidy and convoluted jargon of convoluted syntax is disgusting and rediculous to even try to comprehend.

I date frequently and I’m a type of person who can hang with anyone. I have witness the internal FICO (Fair Issac Credit Origination score) scoring of myself every time I date. It’s disgusting to think that the woman I contmeplating entering a relationship has sized me up as if I’m PREY for her predatorial needs to survive. I leave this topic today with one final comment.

Woman generate 83% of their net wealth and worth through widowing and divorceing. Guess which one is becomming bigger ?

Thank you.
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Re: Views of a 40-Something Confirmed Bachelor
Post by MrZ on Jan 14, 2005, 5:28pm

I hope by the time I’m in my 40s I will be a dirty old man, too. Women here use the word like it’s an insult; they must be crazy. Ever seen Badder Santa? What guy doesn’t want to be in BBT’s shoes
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Re: Views of a 40-Something Confirmed Bachelor
Post by Tyhigs on Jan 15, 2005, 1:04pm

“Woman generate 83% of their net wealth and worth through widowing and divorcing.”

My best friend is getting married. Im trying to dissuade him. Can you provide a source for this statistic?

tyhigs at yahoo dot com
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Re: Views of a 40-Something Confirmed Bachelor
Post by Simpson on Jan 15, 2005, 1:32pm

“I’ve yet to see someone describe this type of relationship. Man has his money, his toys and his interests. Woman is equally succesful and provides for herself. They both enjoy interests which they share together, as well as interests they enjoy individually. Kids are grown and out of the house….Companionship……..”

That is because all things are not equal or fair, and cannot be equal and fair, Single Mom. In your example, who’s house is it, who is doing the shopping, the cooking, or the cleaning? Do you propose a score card to assure everything is kept equal and balanced? What if his interests conflict with her interests, or the timing of the common interests? (e.g. hunting season, good surf, the playoffs).

As for “companionship”, you can get that from a dog and they don’t argue with you. Your utopia of companionship does not work with the cultural reality of modern women.

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Re: Views of a 40-Something Confirmed Bachelor
Post by Lee on Jan 15, 2005, 3:30pm

Quote: While I have seen a variety of reasons for staying single, most apply to a woman being “needy or greedy”. Why is it presumed women fall into these two categories. Is it really that black and white to the men posting here?

It is very common in the US for a woman to behave selfishly, or to be a parasite. Do all women fall into these two categories? No. Do most women fall into these two categories? Yes. You, yourself, admit that this scenario is not common.

Quote:
I don’t see this type of relationship often, but I have seen it.

Quote:I can’t help but think some of the 40’ish (give or take) plus age group, both men and women, struggle with the changing gender roles as of the last few decades resulting in the decline of the traditional family…

Many of the posters are in their teens and twenties and have tired of the behavior of American Women.

Changing gender roles? Bluntly put, this was a cultural mistake to change gender roles. Nothing was broken, so there was no need to fix it. That these changes have caused a decline in the traditional family is proof that they are a failure.

Women have earned the right to work and compete alongside men. What was not considered is whether men would want to date and marry such women. It turns out that they do not.

I think you will find that most AM have no qualms with AW working and having a career and a good education. What these same women also need to do is not engage in constant power struggles with their man, not bitch and complain. They need to cook, and clean, and rear the kids, and make their man feel desired and admired and respected and loved. This has been lost, and is a major force behind the recent plummet in US Marriage Rates.
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Re: Views of a 40-Something Confirmed Bachelor
Post by smarterthanaverage on Jan 15, 2005, 5:19pm

TyHigs, I’m trying to dig it up some where in the quagmire of files I have. It came from Smith barney Investment brokerage newsletter. I would imagine it is somewhat skewed as well. I think it is higher now.

Remind him it is treated as corporation and all it takes is for one of the partners to want a change/out/or the power and I mean all of it… His truth, his misery his destiny… tell him he has beeter ods in Vegas….

If I find it I’ll email or post it.

HTH….
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Re: Views of a 40-Something Confirmed Bachelor
Post by cub fan single mom on Jan 16, 2005, 11:24pm

“I’ve yet to see someone describe this type of relationship. Man has his money, his toys and his interests. Woman is equally succesful and provides for herself. They both enjoy interests which they share together, as well as interests they enjoy individually. Kids are grown and out of the house….Companionship……..”

Actually my dad and his wife have a relationship like this. They did not marry until close to 50.

That is because all things are not equal or fair, and cannot be equal and fair, Single Mom. In your example, who’s house is it, who is doing the shopping, the cooking, or the cleaning? Do you propose a score card to assure everything is kept equal and balanced? What if his interests conflict with her interests, or the timing of the common interests? (e.g. hunting season, good surf, the playoffs).

How old are you? The questions you mention are something that is usually brought up while getting to know someone and dating. Neither one of them gave up anything they did before marrying. They just do things together. And neither gives a hoot as to who does what.

As for “companionship”, you can get that from a dog and they don’t argue with you. Your utopia of companionship does not work with the cultural reality of modern women.
Wow, with all the attacks. Technically anything YOU can offer me, I can get with batteries on demand, without leaving the toilet seat up and lasts for more than 30 seconds.

Hey, us women have a saying. It’s not size, it’s frequency and duration.

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Re: Views of a 40-Something Confirmed Bachelor
Post by Simpson on Jan 17, 2005, 12:17am

Quote: Actually my dad and his wife have a relationship like this. They did not marry until close to 50.

Watching someone ride a bicycle is not the same as riding one yourself, and you most likely have no clue about the internal relationship of your father and his wife. You are prepared to wait until you are 50 to have such a relationship?

Quote: How old are you? The questions you mention are something that is usually brought up while getting to know someone and dating. Neither one of them gave up anything they did before marrying. They just do things together. And neither gives a hoot as to who does what.

I am old enough to be your father, and have enough experience with single mothers to base my choices upon. Somehow you make it sound as if your father has achieved heaven on earth, but it is his multiple marriages that you gloss over. He has not been pained by his previous marriages? What about your mother? Is everyone so happy in your family that we men here seem off-center?

Quote: Wow, with all the attacks. Technically anything YOU can offer me, I can get with batteries on demand, without leaving the toilet seat up and lasts for more than 30 seconds.

Hey, us women have a saying. It’s not size, it’s frequency and duration.

Glad you have your priorities straight and define yourself by your orgasmic power. Basic physics says there is more potential energy when the toilet seat is up than at rest, and you personal interest in your personal satisifaction is duely noted. Consider for a moment that men have sex to procreate – our climax is related to sperm emission for the biological imperiative. Girls just do it for fun, because their climax is unrelated to any baby-making. Frequency and duration has a different meanng in a mans world. Need some double AA’s? How do you feel about strippers?

Sex is the first thing a woman uses in a marriage and dating to control the man, and therein is the problem. Your little battery-operated-boyfriend is clueless if you cheat on it, but real men have a problem with that.
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Re: Views of a 40-Something Confirmed Bachelor
Post by Cub Fan single mom on Jan 17, 2005, 1:33am

Lee,
Thank you for your honest opinion. Everyone would like a relationship in which you described.

I singled out a particular age group based on the time in which roles changed and thinking there was more of an adjustment within that age group.

As far as the changes over the last 40 years. They’ve happened……we can’t turn back the clock. We still have the choice as to how we respond/react. I really don’t blame the younger crowd for feeling the way they do. The best thing about “getting old” is the realization you don’t need to worry about that anymore.

However, your post brought up another question. Are guys passing up average women? The middle of the crowd, who don’t stand out looks wise. I can’t help but believe part of the responsibility falls within the youthful sex bomb image presented as the ideal women. In reality, women don’t and can’t live up to those standards. I find it odd, that even men are now becoming as obsessed with body image as women have been.

Regardless, this isn’t going to fix the relationship wrongs of the world. At best, I hope someone would realize they have control over what they do and how they react. Who cares what anyone else thinks. As long as people are happy and don’t hurt others.

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Re: Views of a 40-Something Confirmed Bachelor
Post by Simpson on Jan 17, 2005, 1:43am

Yeah, who cares about chopped liver.
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Re: Views of a 40-Something Confirmed Bachelor
Post by Lee on Jan 17, 2005, 2:58am

Quote: As far as the changes over the last 40 years. They’ve happened……we can’t turn back the clock. We still have the choice as to how we respond/react. I really don’t blame the younger crowd for feeling the way they do. The best thing about “getting old” is the realization you don’t need to worry about that anymore.

We all have a choice how we react, true. Any responsible adult would say so. That does not excuse the fact that the behavior of AW has plummeted in the past 10 years. If these are the changes, then I think they won’t be accepted by many. Or the resultant society will be one few would wish to inhabit.

Quote: Are guys passing up average women? The middle of the crowd, who don’t stand out looks wise. I can’t help but believe part of the responsibility falls within the youthful sex bomb image presented as the ideal women. In reality, women don’t and can’t live up to those standards.

I write soley of behavior and character, and sadly I have seen this behavior, or lack thereof, in average, plain and unattractive women. Most men don’t only want to date Carmen Electra or Paris Hilton look-alikes, although few men would pass on the chance to do so. Most men want a decent woman, and they are an endangered species today.

That most Americans are overweight or obese makes it an even greater challenge. Imagine a plain woman who weighs 325 pounds who has an attitude like a stuck-up model. These women exist and I, frankly, cannot fathom such self delusion. This will bring dating and marriage to a halt, as is happening in the US today.

Quote: Regardless, this isn’t going to fix the relationship wrongs of the world. At best, I hope someone would realize they have control over what they do and how they react. Who cares what anyone else thinks. As long as people are happy and don’t hurt others.

How men are reacting is by withdrawal from the field of play. Many AW do hurt men through abhorrent behavior, and many people are not happy.

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Re: Views of a 40-Something Confirmed Bachelor
Post by Cub Fan single mom on Jan 17, 2005, 6:48pm

Lee,
Your thoughts are interesting. I just ran across a thread on a private political debate board (of whom are mostly married sahm moms, some home schoolers. I’m the lone single mom) which is about whether feminism has hurt women.

Later on when I have the time to read through it, I’ll bring some of the thoughts here for your prespective. What I was able to catch, was that many women feel a lack of respect from men. Although, that group is still a small percentage perspective wise. I’m interested in seeing the differences between a womans and a mans perspective.

I’m not really into political debate. I’m more fascinated by people in general. I suppose that’swhy I am in sales. (RE)

Little one is up from his nap.

BBL,
Michelle
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Re: Views of a 40-Something Confirmed Bachelor
Post by Cub Fan single mom on Jan 17, 2005, 8:49pm

Lee, and anyone else-
The general consensus between the comments from the men here, and the married women on the other board are pretty close in agreement.

The only thing brought up on the other board, is the lack of respect for women, women portrayed as sex objects and the lack of respect the younger generation has for sex. I have to agree with some of that when I see 7 yr olds dressed in heals and short skirts.

I’m concluding, that a lot of what we are seeing is desenstivity. Which overall is creating havoc in all area’s of relationships. Even the C word, doesn’t have the stigma it once did. The J word still does……but we’ve gotten to the point where little else does.

Children of divorced parents witness some of the financial issues single mothers went through 30 yrs ago. Perhaps some of that has driven the need for women to be financially independent.

Either way, I still see both sides.
I hope my being here is not offending anyone. I’m really not interested in taking away the sanctity of the board. I’m here to learn.

Michelle

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Not a good sign…..
Post by LOGIC 101 on Jan 18, 2005, 11:02pm

Quote: The only thing brought up on the other board, is the lack of respect for women, women portrayed as sex objects and the lack of respect the younger generation has for sex. I have to agree with some of that when I see 7 yr olds dressed in heals and short skirts.

At 7 years old!? That is sick and wrong. Where are their parents? Who is disciplining them?

-Logic 101

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Re: Views of a 40-Something Confirmed Bachelor
Post by Simpson on Jan 19, 2005, 11:26am

Quote: The only thing brought up on the other board, is the lack of respect for women, women portrayed as sex objects

Herein is a great example of the feminst double-standard, Michelle. Can you think of an equal number of examples for disrespect toward men, I can. We are made out to be fools in commercials and in entertainment, we are asserted as abusive, we are the source of alleged sexual harassment, we are potential rapists, we are part of the patriarchy that has oppressed women. We are controlling, we are deadbeat dads, and we are only thinking of one thing – women as sex objects.

Have you seen how women dress, lately? Not exactly consistant with the complaint of being viewed as sex objects. Where did the younger generation learn their values for sex?

The other day I tried to hold the door for a woman at the Post Office and was met with her rath – “I can open my own door, Mister.”

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Re: Views of a 40-Something Confirmed Bachelor
Post by Cub fan single mom on Jan 19, 2005, 3:27pm

Logic,
Walk through a department store and pay attention to what’s on the rack in the girls section. I wasn’t allowed to wear that stuff growing up.

Simpson,
As far as dead beats, there is over 100 billion in unpaid child support for this country as a whole. (www.childsupport-aces.org scroll down to the bottom of the page for stats) I’m not sure the stats are current. I think it was 02 or 03 it as 92 billion.

I don’t share the same dark cloud. Sure, there are plenty of a-holes out there, both men and women. Have we lost our value’s as a society as a whole? Certainly. I admire the WWII generation as the greatest generation which ever existed in recent history.

I don’t believe everyone has lost those values. The whole world stinks attitude is reflective of what we see in the media. Why? Because it sells. It gets ratings. Hey, GW was re-elected on morals right?

Recalling some old country lyrics. “Some girls don’t like boys like me, oh but some girls do.” Not everyone is going to like someone. What matters is we treat people with respect and consideration. So the woman, who was snide while you offered the door? She has no manners. I wouldn’t let it phase you. Girls are a dime a dozen-next.

I recall pushing two carts out of Walmart with son in tow,( yes, I know people despise Walmart, tight budget) and some man commenting out loud it must be rough……while walking with his kid. Did he offer to help? No. Was he an example of good manners to his son? Not exactly. I get the same pitiful looks from people. Please don’t pity me. Strangers thoughts don’t mean anything. When am I ever going to see these people again? Most likely never.

All we can do is exemplify what we believe in, and let those go who don’t share those same values, without letting it affect us personally.

Oh, and thanks for the well wishes with my beloved Cubs. Now that Boston won, it’s the Cubs and White Sox as the two solo teams which have gone the longest without winning. 1908 and 1917 respectively.

Michelle – Go Cubs!
Joey – mom can’t wait until I am old enough to go to Cubs games!

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Re: Views of a 40-Something Confirmed Bachelor
Post by Simpson on Jan 19, 2005, 4:51pm

Quote: As far as dead beats, there is over 100 billion in unpaid child support for this country as a whole.

I avoid commenting on child support as I have never been married and do not have kids. But certainly you are not implying that men are responsible for the entire sum, as women are likely to be a significant portion of deadbeat parents. The statistic does point to the failure of two-parent family homes in this era.

Quote: Have we lost our value’s as a society as a whole? Certainly. I admire the WWII generation as the greatest generation which ever existed in recent history.

Newsflash – The WWII generation is gone, and we have lost most of our values as a society as a whole. By way of example, use the Ten Commandments; we live in a time that seems to want to dispatch these standards as quickly as possible. I would not describe it as a dark cloud for me, rather just reality.

Quote: The whole world stinks attitude is reflective of what we see in the media. Why? Because it sells. It gets ratings.

Same with the man-bashing and misandry of feminism, and it is destroying the relationship between men and women daily.

Quote: Hey, GW was re-elected on morals right?

He was; but was it the lack of morals for the Democrats, or the percieved morals of the Republicans?

Quote: What matters is we treat people with respect and consideration. So the woman, who was snide while you offered the door? She has no manners. I wouldn’t let it phase you.

I do treat people with such respect up to a point, yet since I deal with the public in large numbers I get annoyed at the bovine-scat quickly and don’t have much tolerance for the pleading and excuses. In my working world, I have the ability to have people removed – 86’d – and a lack of manners is the fastest way to get tossed out. It does not phase me, I rather enjoy it. And it is my responsiblity so as to preserve the shared experience of the entire group.

Quote: Strangers thoughts don’t mean anything. When am I ever going to see these people again? Most likely never.

You must be young, because you would be amazed at what a small world it really is. Six degrees to Kevin Bacon.

Quote: All we can do is exemplify what we believe in, and let those go who don’t share those same values, without letting it affect us personally.

That is why I am a confirmed single-man nearing 50, the women I meet do not share the same values.

Quote: Oh, and thanks for the well wishes with my beloved Cubs. Now that Boston won, it’s the Cubs and White Sox as the two solo teams which have gone the longest without winning. 1908 and 1917 respectily.

It that the game with the pointy-ended ball, or the little white one that they hit with a stick? You want to hide something from me, put it in the sports page. Cheers!
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Re: Views of a 40-Something Confirmed Bachelor
Post by Lee on Jan 19, 2005, 6:04pm

Quote: The only thing brought up on the other board, is the lack of respect for women, women portrayed as sex objects and the lack of respect the younger generation has for sex. I have to agree with some of that when I see 7 yr olds dressed in heals and short skirts.

Women portrayed as sex objects by whom?

Women have been able to make their own choices for decades. If she choses to pose in Playboy, or do a porno, or ‘lose’ her homemade boudoire tape ala Paris or Pamela, or flash for Girls Gone Wild, or sell dvd’s of herself masturbating, or sets up a dormroom webcam, she is making herself into a sex object and it is all her responsibility.

This dovetails with the free for all attitude the younger generation have for sex, especially the women. YW are out of control (Girls Gone Wild!) and have licence to behave without bound.

Women have commodified themselves. As a result we have a lack of respect for the act of sex, a lack of respect for women when they willfully make themselves into willing sex objects, and a lack of respect for women in general.

If Feminists had not treated men with disrespect and contempt, then perhaps women would be able to expect respect. As it stands, this is just the chickens coming home to roost.

If you express contempt, disdain, disrespect, belittlement, mockery and dislike towards men (and one only needs to watch TV commercials to witness this firsthand), then it should come as no surprise when men treat women disrepectfully.

That men waited until the Feminist Movement was in its 5th decade sheds light on the true character of men.

We are patient and tolerant, but enough is enough.
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Re: Views of a 40-Something Confirmed Bachelor
Post by It takes two on Jan 21, 2005, 5:41am

It takes two to make a sex object.
The respect you get is equal to the respect you give.
Men have waited out very long periods thru history to get what they want. 40 yrs of feminasty-ism is scarcely a blip. When the big change of direction comes, the ladies will be oblivious to it. “The revolution will not be televised.” If you are not ready for it, you will be overwhelmed. Just remember, without our sperm, our muscle, our pay cheques, our invention and discovery, our risk taking, the sweat off our brow and our emotional and intellectual support, the vast majority of the maternally instinctively inclined will struggle and maybe even wither. That will be deeply sad for all.

Then again taking responsibility for your own thoughts, decisions, actions, deeds and emotions? Why bother when there’s a man to blame.
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Re: Views of a 40-Something Confirmed Bachelor
Post by me on Jan 21, 2005, 2:00pm

The revolution is already underway. It is evident in board such as these. It is called the marriage strike, and I hope it continues until women change their ways and the laws become fair.

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Re: Views of a 40-Something Confirmed Bachelor
Post by smarterthenaverage on Jan 21, 2005, 2:09pm

Wow,
alot of good cogent input here.

supplementing along the lines of what it takes two said,

MEN built the world, MEN defend the world so let’s give credit where credit is due.
I fear that the pressures to survive in a lifestyle, COLA, (Cost Of Living Areas), immediate gratification fallout etc has caused a decay and erosion of societies values, ethos, standards etc. It transcends into litigation issues, frivolous litigation issues, a host of relationship issues, financial ruses and dupes that are criminal but not easily punishable or provable with intent.

The attitude I see prevalent in Los Angeles today is : I’m going to get mine and screw him/her as long as I get mine. Nothing I want to teach my children etc…

Another example of woman becoming sexual objects are: the increase in number of plastic surgery or augmentive procedures are at an all time high. Yes, men do get some procedures but the statistics are not even close in percentage. I think this illustrates women’s innate instincts in knowing their strength in
their species is SEX or their SEX appeal. They are tuned into it and Men generally play into it every time.
I perceive that men are edifying themselves and learning that their own Achilles heal so to speak is their demise. I would agree that is why so many men are withdrawing and codifying their behavior less boldly.
I know I have and have learned so much with regards to the manipulations, double standards, convoluted stereotypes portrayed against men that are distorted beyond belief at times.

Caveat emptor….
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Re: Views of a 40-Something Confirmed Bachelor
Post by Willie Molson on Jan 21, 2005, 2:17pm

I think I follow what you were trying to say. I would request that you take the time to write coherently and more logically in the future. I say this because I believe I agree with the fundamental tenets you espoused. I just couldn’t follow your thoughts because the poor writing got in the way.
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Re: Views of a 40-Something Confirmed Bachelor
Post by Lee on Jan 21, 2005, 7:35pm

Quote:
Wow, with all the attacks. Technically anything YOU can offer me, I can get with batteries on demand, without leaving the toilet seat up and lasts for more than 30 seconds.

Hey, us women have a saying. It’s not size, it’s frequency and duration.

You seemed cool until this little comment. Considering that I am a life-long Cubs fan, I feel the urge to lighten up on you.

Your comments are exactly why I dislike dating so many American women. Even the decent and cool ones will, when under pressure, resort to man-hating, sexist comments. I have dated few exceptions, and have dated no exceptions since the 80’s.

Your comments are exactly what AM are tired of. When we hear a woman utter such diatribes against men, we no longer argue, or fight; we walk away to leave the women with her superiority.

This can be scaled up to society at large as millions of men individually decide to not tolerate such treatment, and leave women to their arrogance and superiority and misandrist snipes.

I have posted this before: American Women are free to do as you wish. It is a free country. But you are deluding yourselves if you think men will even want to talk with women who espouse such views to men in the open.
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Re: Views of a 40-Something Confirmed Bachelor
Post by smarterthanaverage2 on Jan 21, 2005, 7:46pm

Willie Molson,

I’m far too busy to take the time every time I write or comment to post with impeccable diction especially at your request.

You obviously understood.

Notwithstanding, your attempt to be invectively didactic, vituperative and condescending slid off my back like water to a duck.

I in turn would suggest to you a little more humility, compassion and less ego.

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Re: Views of a 40-Something Confirmed Bachelor
Post by Cub fan single mom on Jan 21, 2005, 9:57pm

It was purely in response to some of Simpson’s snide comments.

I was really deciding whether or not to reply. I can’t stand conversations in which I am not being snide, and I get condescending snide comments back. I usually walk away. However, being the person I am…..I try to find some good or common ground in other people as opposed to walking away with a bad impression.

So, to answer some previous questions. I don’t date because I don’t have time being a single mom. Heck, I’m lucky if I get out once a month. All my time is devoted to work (Realtor) and my son. It would not be fair to ship him off on someone else. I ask for sitters for weekend and evening work……..I would not be fair to date, when I really don’t have the time to dedicate to a relationship. So, waiting until I am 50 or so isn’t a bad option. It’s not that far off, and I will have more time then…..I’ve also noticed the better relationships are usually among older people. Who have already had the time to discover who they are, as opposed to the rat race game. I guess that is what I meant when I say people change. Perhaps it would have been better said as people grow.

I’m 38, almost 39 (in March). My sons father is 44. He is not particularly attractive, nor is he wealthy. I knew him as an acquaintance for 10 yrs before we started dating. Which happened after becoming friends. It wasn’t planned and actually a surprise, because I was never physically attracted to him. I only was attracted to him after I got to know him. I thought he was a nice guy. Yes, thought……he wanted me to abort, I did not so he is angry. Yes, it was my choice to keep the child. Men do get angry, because they don’t have the choice once a women is pregnant. However, they do have the choice when they have sex.

Unfortunately he is so angry at me, he can’t put that aside to see what is best for his son. ANd you really can’t say you truly know someone or how they will react to certain circumstances until a person faces those circumstances. Many things in my life, did not go as I expected they would as a kid. Some things better, some things not……I do try to make the best of a situation and find good in it. It takes too much energy to hold onto anger and cry about it.
It takes more energy to stay angry than to let it go….

Lastly, There are SO many different area’s and lifestyles in this country, it’s too stereotypical to lump women into one category, as it is with men. It’s kind of like saying women in rural Montana are the same as women in LA. They are night and day…….There are tons of home schooling stay at home moms.Women who are not career driven. Some religious, some atheists, some agnostic…….some liberal, some conservative. Heck, the differences would take forever to explain.

I guess some of you might just be looking in the wrong places, or living in the wrong places. In fact, maybe if we turn off the freaking TV and get to know some real people, those stereotypes and prejudices would find there way out.

I’m part of an after the election 2004 private msn debate board. I’m not so into the debate. I learn alot. I see enough fighting over silly things there, it’s a great place to vent when I need to. It’s the nature of the board. You can bitch so to speak, as long as it is done in a productive way, or I guess how one decides to handle it.

Oh, and on a political note. I can’t help but see Condi being set up to take the fall. Collin Powell was a smart man to call it a day when he did.

Michelle
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Re: Views of a 40-Something Confirmed Bachelor
Post by Ted on Jan 21, 2005, 10:30pm

Quote:
Yes, thought……he wanted me to abort, I did not so he is angry. Yes, it was my choice to keep the child. Men do get angry, because they don’t have the choice once a women is pregnant. However, they do have the choice when they have sex.

And they also have other choices as well.

Just tell us how much you shook him down for.
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Re: Views of a 40-Something Confirmed Bachelor
Post by Cub Fan single mom on Jan 21, 2005, 10:59pm

a whopping 48.64 per week. Yep, he decided to quit life and work for 8 bucks an hour so no one could “hold a gun to his wallet”.
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Men have better options……
Post by LOGIC 101 on Jan 22, 2005, 12:53am

Some of us have already moved on. A relationship with an American woman has become rather irrelevant to me. I made my choice many years ago. I simply won’t date any AW because of the unfair/biased laws/treatment that punish men in family court should a future divorce or custody battle commence. Now becoming an expat and playing the field outside of America is still an option I may pursue down the road. We’ll see.

So please be my guest ‘Cub Fan single mom’ . Pleasure yourself. I’ll even send you a jumbo pack of batteries with my best wishes and condolences.

Have a good weekend….by the way RED SOX #1

Logic 101
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Re: Views of a 40-Something Confirmed Bachelor
Post by Lee on Jan 22, 2005, 3:08am

Quote:
It was purely in response to some of Simpsons snide comments.

It isn’t important to what man your comments were directed. It is the fact that you made them at all.

Men are noticing this behavior, and we simply will not tolerate it anymore.

I could easily go to that level and use the same techniques on women, but I don’t and I never have. Yet women feel free to indulge in man-bashing far too frequently. Why do you feel it is appropriate? Why do women bash men, yet men do not reciprocate nearly as often?

If women make comments like that to men, can you understand why men would wish to withdraw from dating and marrying such women?

It seems common sense to me.
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Re: Views of a 40-Something Confirmed Bachelor
Post by Ted on Jan 22, 2005, 7:42am

Quote:a whopping 48.64 per week. Yep, he decided to quit life and work for 8 bucks an hour so no one could “hold a gun to his wallet”.

The manner in which you currently extract money from a man you knew did not want a child is robbery and extortion.

He is working that $8/hr job knowing that if he earned any more money, he’d be shaken down by you for even more. So you have dictated his earning power as well, which is having huge repercussions for other areas of his life.

You have used your child, the court system, and the so-called “woman’s right to an abortion” simply to control another man, to force him to pay for your selfish desires that you know he does not share.

You loathsome, disgusting American woman.

Your only wall between him and you is the police – because from now on, you will need violent force at the ready to protect yourself from his vengeful rage and hatred against you. If something does happen, let it be known what you did, so that no one calls it “domestic violence,” or “violence against women,” or some other such hackneyed nonsense.

Let it be called “justice.”

Like I said, a man has more choices to choose from.
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Re: Views of a 40-Something Confirmed Bachelor
Post by smarterthanaverage3 on Jan 22, 2005, 9:49am

Cub fan single mom,

Interesting situation your in.

I’m curious your thought process on these issues.

1) you unilaterally chose to have the child knowing he was in protest. Now you want to cry foul for him being a deadbeat. I assume you did your due diligence when dating him and had full disclosure before intercourse….

2) how you justify after you knowing full well the responsibilities, comittments, effort etc financial encumbrance etc. had the child and still hold resentment for his failure to provide more. The man clearly told you he was not in accord or agreement.
Yes, he does have responsility and he is not exonerated from that. However you too have the ability to control your actions and chose to not only pro-create with this man but chose to go term and have the child.
Your choice and now you want to cry foul at him for his falilure to go along with the program.

I will add that I totally admire the fact that you have apparantly picked up the slack and provided for this child.

I guess my point is you picked him too and knew the type of person he was since you did have a history with him prior to your ultimate conception. Why would think or expect to change him ?

Your “BOB” (battery operated boyfriend) comments are exactly the type and typical attitude that is prevalent in today’s women and frankly resonates the same paradigm men have used for years as well. “Punch the Munckin” or “beat the clown” etc… Which makes it a Quid Pro Qou…

So now we have an impass with no one trusting one another and resulting in self gratification…Evolution got to love it…

just curious as to the thought processes….
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Re: Views of a 40-Something Confirmed Bachelor
Post by Cub Fan single mom on Jan 23, 2005, 1:51am

Lee,
My apologies if I offended you. Yes, you are right in that those comments were very unbecoming. Just as you feel the need to protect your stance, I too think women bashing needs to be defended.

Before you defend my previous comments, remember you don’t know me. You know very little about me. It’s that close minded attitude that causes more chaos than necessary.

“They got the hustle…….
They got the muscle…….”

I miss the old days.

Michelle

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Re: Views of a 40-Something Confirmed Bachelor
Post by Cub Fan Single mom on Jan 23, 2005, 1:54am

Your only wall between him and you is the police – because from now on, you will need violent force at the ready to protect yourself from his vengeful rage and hatred against you. If something does happen, let it be known what you did, so that no one calls it “domestic violence,” or “violence against women,” or some other such hackneyed nonsense.

I’ve only picked this out as the vile nonsense I won’t respond to.

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Re: Views of a 40-Something Confirmed Bachelor
Post by Cub Fan single mom on Jan 23, 2005, 2:24am

I’m curious your thought process on these issues.

1) you unilaterally chose to have the child knowing he was in protest. Now you want to cry foul for him being a deadbeat. I assume you did your due diligence when dating him and had full disclosure before intercourse….

—-Full disclosure. I never professed to be on hormonal bc. He refused to use condoms. When I used otc spermicide’s he had a fit about that, something about the taste………..Should you ask why I was not on hormonal bc……It made me nuts. It was far worse than pms. I have not experienced menapuase or post pardom depression so I can’t use those as examples. I can only say it was like pms x 1000. I was not about to take anti-depressants simply to offset my reaction to hormonal bc. Seriously, they should have never taken the sponge off the market.

NFP or natural family planning. I suppose this will be a little tmi…….I was able to detect the mucous (sp?) changes in my cervical fluid to determine what time it was. Self taught…….every other guy I dated respected my “it’s not a good time”. Most would refrain from intercourse entirely during that time. (Lots of other fun things to do….) I didn’t need to chart or take temperatures like some women do. I just kind of knew. Every one else I dated respected the “it’s not a good time” if they refused to use condoms……

2) how you justify after you knowing full well the responsibilities, comittments, effort etc financial encumbrance etc. had the child and still hold resentment for his failure to provide more. The man clearly told you he was not in accord or agreement.
Yes, he does have responsility and he is not exonerated from that. However you too have the ability to control your actions and chose to not only pro-create with this man but chose to go term and have the child.
Your choice and now you want to cry foul at him for his falilure to go along with the program.

—See above answer…….My crying foul is more that he can walk away from something he created. There is no dollar amount on my son.

I will add that I totally admire the fact that you have apparantly picked up the slack and provided for this child.

—-Thank you. I don’t mind sacrificing for ds. My family and friends have helped somewhat as well. That old, it takes a village thing……….I’m lucky to have wonderful freinds and family.

I guess my point is you picked him too and knew the type of person he was since you did have a history with him prior to your ultimate conception. Why would think or expect to change him ?

—–Change someone? No, we only have control over ourselves.

Your “BOB” (battery operated boyfriend) comments are exactly the type and typical attitude that is prevalent in today’s women and frankly resonates the same paradigm men have used for years as well. “Punch the Munckin” or “beat the clown” etc… Which makes it a Quid Pro Qou…

—–So, it’s ok for a man to please himself, and that is unacceptable for a woman?

So now we have an impass with no one trusting one another and resulting in self gratification…Evolution got to love it…

——While we may have grown old enough to know the world is not the safe place we knew in our childhood, there is something to be said about taking chances. One of my favorite sayings, ” Nothing good ever comes from your comfort zone.” I’d rather face the heartache of taking risks, than to live in a world which hinders my dreams due to the fear of what if’s and chances. For every heartache and heart break we endure, it build’s character and gives the resources to recognize sooner, and extract ourselves from those situations with less greif the next time around.

just curious as to the thought processes….

—-You got it.

Michelle

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Re: Views of a 40-Something Confirmed Bachelor
Post by Ted on Jan 23, 2005, 3:20am

Quote: Your only wall between him and you is the police – because from now on, you will need violent force at the ready to protect yourself from his vengeful rage and hatred against you. If something does happen, let it be known what you did, so that no one calls it “domestic violence,” or “violence against women,” or some other such hackneyed nonsense.

I’ve only picked this out as the vile nonsense I won’t respond to.

LOL You are absolutely the *LAST* person to talk about vile behavior. >:-D

And we’re supposed to be moved by your “moral indignation?” LOL What does a low, two-bit tramp without a shred of honor (i.e., you) know about morals? Especially after what you had done? LOL You are so laughable.

OTOH, it is YOU who is vile – to the man whose life is now consumed in misery and anger by your selfishness, your utter lack of conscience, and by the female-biased legal system that allows him NO choice whatsoever in whether to terminate a pregnancy or not – the same female-biased system that allows you to take his money against his will.

What a truly worthless American woman – total piece of garbage. Gee, I hope that’s not too “vile” for you. LOL

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Re: Views of a 40-Something Confirmed Bachelor
Post by Simpson on Jan 23, 2005, 1:08pm

When I grow up I want to be more like Lee and less like Ted

Michelle, your self-confidence is amazing, even going so far as to forego the standards of tracking your temp and calendering the cycle. You knew yourself so well, that it wasn’t necessary to follow NFP procedure. Time to quit telling folks you were using NFP, because you were not. NFP requires that you take your temp and track your cycle, and millions of Catholic babys have proven that women do not know themselves that well. You used Vatican Roulette and got pregnant, and now excuse it by saying you were doing your part with NFP, when you didn’t actually do the work.

God gave woman the uterus, therefore the woman has a greater responsibility to assure a good home for the children she will bear. You didn’t assure this basic tenet of womanhood.

He refused to use condoms?

Quote: He refused to use condoms.

So you said “Hey Baby, put on your party-hat tonight” and he said no, and you still had sex with him? His refusal to tarp the load was all the warning you needed that he was a jerk – and yet you continued to have sex with him?

Perhaps you were not interested in using condoms either, overcome with the passion. Was it a long-distance relationship? Was it a stormy relationship? Lot’s of drama involved, like he was seperated or had ex-wives and other children? Perhaps you worked together and that contributed to the passion? Something was going on to make that jerk really exciting to you, aye?

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Re: Views of a 40-Something Confirmed Bachelor
Post by Ted on Jan 23, 2005, 2:34pm

Quote: When I grow up

Well, when you do, let us know – 50 year-olders tend to take longer these days.
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Re: Views of a 40-Something Confirmed Bachelor
Post by smarterthanaverage2 on Jan 23, 2005, 10:56pm

Cub Fan single mom,

“—–Change someone? No, we only have control over ourselves.”

Good to know another person on this planet gets it…. could’nt agree more -

“—Full disclosure. I never professed to be on hormonal bc. He refused to use condoms. When I used otc spermicide’s he had a fit about that, something about the taste………..Should you ask why I was not on hormonal bc……It made me nuts. It was far worse than pms. I have not experienced menapuase or post pardom depression so I can’t use those as examples. I can only say it was like pms x 1000. I was not about to take anti-depressants simply to offset my reaction to hormonal bc. Seriously, they should have never taken the sponge off the market.”

“NFP or natural family planning. I suppose this will be a little tmi…….I was able to detect the mucous (sp?) changes in my cervical fluid to determine what time it was. Self taught…….every other guy I dated respected my “it’s not a good time”. Most would refrain from intercourse entirely during that time. (Lots of other fun things to do….) I didn’t need to chart or take temperatures like some women do. I just kind of knew. Every one else I dated respected the “it’s not a good time” if they refused to use condoms……”

fair enough, however he has his self serving interests and you do as well.

I still see equal responsibility and he should have chosen another option for his moment IMHO….But hindsight is 20/20……

“Your “BOB” (battery operated boyfriend) comments are exactly the type and typical attitude that is prevalent in today’s women and frankly resonates the same paradigm men have used for years as well. “Punch the Munckin” or “beat the clown” etc… Which makes it a Quid Pro Qou…”

“—–So, it’s ok for a man to please himself, and that is unacceptable for a woman?”

No, apparently my point was overlooked. I said men adopt the same mentality and attitude thus resulting in a Quid Pro Quo situation regarding self stimulation. Frankly, sad commentary and cogent justification for lack of trust and responsibity between the genders.

“——While we may have grown old enough to know the world is not the safe place we knew in our childhood, there is something to be said about taking chances. One of my favorite sayings, ” Nothing good ever comes from your comfort zone.” I’d rather face the heartache of taking risks, than to live in a world which hinders my dreams due to the fear of what if’s and chances. For every heartache and heart break we endure, it build’s character and gives the resources to recognize sooner, and extract ourselves from those situations with less greif the next time around.”

I believe this paradigm is flawed. While certainly most of it is true and sounds like a wonderful philosophy. It is an idealistic construct that burdens people’s families, religions, governmental social system entitlement programs, bank accounts, beneifits the legal system, breeds a host of problems that only multiply with amplitude but overall degrade and burden society.

“there is something to be said about taking chances”

key grasp of the obvious…..NO rocket science here..

Bottom line here is:

The answer is that RISKS are associated with taking chances and the ramifications/consequences upside/downside of these choices are what makes it a good risk or bad risk… The CRUCIBLE is knowing when to take the chances….

“nothing good ever comes from your comfort zone”.
Dunno about that… I know exactly what you are saying. But, realize the importance of growth, evolution win/win et al etc…

I tend to think of it as knowing when and what to deviate from my comfort zone. To me, it is about making choices and realizing the proper or best time to deviate from that comfort zone.

I enjoy the dialogue and exchange…

Thanks

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Re: Views of a 40-Something Confirmed Bachelor
Post by Cub Fan single mom on Jan 25, 2005, 12:27am

Smarter than average,

Quid Pro Quo
–At the risk of sounding stupid. I honestly have no idea what this word means.

With regards to risk. Sure anyone can assess risks to the best of their ability. There are no guaranties in life. Being too cautious is going to hinder someone from realizing there full potential.

EVERYONE is afraid of something…….some deal with it better than others.

I really don’t mind having a constructive conversation here. It’s difficult to assess whether or not the conversation towards myself is genuine or not given some of the remarks to other women who have posted on this board. I’m happy to answer honestly. Obviously my remarks are not going to represent the whole. As the remarks here from the men don’t represent the whole either.

Michelle

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Re: Views of a 40-Something Confirmed Bachelor
Post by smarterthanaverage1 on Jan 25, 2005, 8:49am

Cub Fan single mom,

Quid Pro Quo
–At the risk of sounding stupid. I honestly have no idea what this word means.

No worries,

Definition: [n] an equal exchange; “we had no money so we had to live by barter”

“With regards to risk. Sure anyone can assess risks to the best of their ability. There are no guaranties in life. Being too cautious is going to hinder someone from realizing there full potential.”

Key grasp of the obvious…..

Missed my point… I did not suggest to stay stagnant or not take risks… I said the key was learning or knowing when and what risks to take, I did not suggest to be too cautious……

“EVERYONE is afraid of something…….some deal with it better than others.”

100% agreed

I really don’t mind having a constructive conversation here. It’s difficult to assess whether or not the conversation towards myself is genuine or not given some of the remarks to other women who have posted on this board. I’m happy to answer honestly. Obviously my remarks are not going to represent the whole. As the remarks here from the men don’t represent the whole either.

Actually, to me your writing is the only one I have felt is worth responding to and engaging with, So, it’s you and yes, it’s genuine.

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Re: Views of a 40-Something Confirmed Bachelor
Post by TyHigs on Jan 25, 2005, 2:09pm

have the women on this board heard of the diaphragm? the sponge? IUD?

I cant wait til they perfect this birth control for men, so we wont be at the mercy of women who are afraid of getting fat or are too dumb to remember to take their pills.
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Re: Views of a 40-Something Confirmed Bachelor
Post by Lee on Jan 25, 2005, 8:28pm

Quote: have the women on this board heard of the diapragm? the sponge? IUD?

I cant wait til they perfect this birth control for men, so we wont be at the mercy of women who are afraid of getting fat or are too dumb to remember to take their pills.

Last time I tallied it up, women had 15 or 16 methods to avoid parenthood. Men have 3.

Women

The Pill
Norplant
The Patch
The Sponge (soon to be approved in the US)
IUD
Diaphram
Tubal Ligation
Abortion
Adoption
Abstinence
RU-486
Depo-Provera
The Ring
Male Condom
Female Condom
NFP

Men

Male Condom
Vasectomy
Abstinence

Cubmom has stated that hormone based contraception makes her emotionally unstable. I believe her claim. But when I encounter a woman who states that she is allergic to all birth control, or uses her sensitivity to some types of BC to exclude the usage of all other BC, I immediately think that this is a woman who is waiting for pregnancy to ‘just happen’ so that she can deflect some of the responsibility, and perhaps trap the man into fatherhood.

I am a rational, self-responsible man. There is no way that a woman I am having sex with will ever get pregnant by accident.

Accidents don’t happen, lack of preparation does.

I think this is the root of our disagreement.

CB believes that pregnancy can ‘just happen’, and I and others believe that it only occurs when one wants it to occur.

Q: What happens if two adults have sex without BC?
A: The women gets pregnant.

This is the natural and logical result of Cubmom’s behavior wrt BC. I am of the opinion that she wanted to get pregnant, for if she did not she would have insured that she did not get pregnant. She left open the possibility by virtue of her choice of non-monitored NFP, thus I conclude she wanted to get pregnant.

It goes without saying that the potential father was not privy to her decision making process.

And that is why so many think her actions selfish and irresponsible.
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Re: Views of a 40-Something Confirmed Bachelor
Post by Whatever they say on Jan 26, 2005, 12:38am

Lets face it guys… women want to define everything on their own terms and when it suits them. They spend inordinate amounts of time (like on here) justifying and rationalising their actions. As if the sounds made by vocal chord vibrations make any difference. ACTIONS SPEAK FOR THEMSELVES. Everything else is NOISE. If it helps them get thru the day and sleep better, then fine, it makes for a useful tonic.

Sometimes l think that most people, women in particular, have a basic problem with understanding the basics of cause and effect.

A man’s sperm is only half of the recipe of life. Those gametes on their own cannot produce life. Sorry for the basic 9th grade biology lesson, but it is the union of our sperm with YOUR eggs in YOUR body that initiates life. The new life grows in YOUR womb. The choice to create life is entirely YOURS, ladies. You can attempt to lay off responsibility for what YOU put in YOUR body, but what the hey, denial and blame are the most important crutches that women use to absorb their reality. The only time when a man is equally responsible is when he TACITLY AGREES and proceeds on that basis.

Obviously the law doesn’t see it this way, but then again the law makers have no basic respect for an individual’s human rights (eg drafting people to kill and be killed), so who cares about they think. They do not reflect on essential truth, just expediency of the state. We are ultimately free to act on our own conscience.

In summary, its your body, your choice, your right and most of all YOUR RESPONSIBILITY. The fact that women attempt to lay off that basic, self evident and inescapable reality, speaks volumes about the essence of woman.
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Re: Views of a 40-Something Confirmed Bachelor
Post by Cub fan single mom on Jan 26, 2005, 1:11am

I’ll explain some of my “nfp” knowledge.
Before I became a mom, I never heard of NFP. I’m a cradle Catholic who left and came back many years later.
I was regular to the day, thinking back, probably within 8-12 hours and was able to notice the changes in my body which indicated ovulation. Since I had been sexually active for 17 years I avoided the same times each month and it worked.
In the back of my mind I wondered if I might have a fertility problem. The length of time left the question. I was never ttc, so I never thought about being tested.

I only became pregnant within 4 months or so of my cycle changing. My cycle was longer 2-3 times during the previous 12 months. I really did not give any thought to that and concluded it was stress related. At the time I was caring for my great aunt who lost her husband and had just started working my own business ft. A few months prior I spotted from ovulation through the end of my cycle. Saw the gyno, and he said it was stress related….He had no concerns as it was a one time occurance.

I actually avoided seeing my ex for the week prior to conceiving believing that was my fertile time. Tmi, but I was a 23-26 day cycle previously. Mostly 25. I had 14 and some 15 cycles per year….Ds was conceived on day 17. My mistake for not realizing as I got older my cycles might change. I was so used to them being regular, and not too painful.

Did I know I wanted to be a mother one day? Certainly. Would I have chosen that timing and with someone I was not married to, or expecting to marry. No. Who would do that the year you start a business straight commision.

I have been absitinent since I was 6 mo’s pg. I did get lucky once when I was preggo, with a previous ex only because I did not want my son’s father to be my last. Was that immature? Yep……but I let the guy know my reasons upfront.

With regards to the sponge…..It’s been forever since I did my homework, but last I saw the FDA was “soon to put it back on the market” forever. I don’t recall all the research aside from it was taken off the market because of a water problem the FDA would not pass. Last I checked it was available from Canada.

Lee- Do you have any recent links regarding the sponge coming back on the market?

BB trivia: The Chicago Cubs were the first team to start the tradition of singing the national anthem during the world series of 1918. The Cubs played at Comisky and the Red Sox played at Braves field. Both choices made due to seating capacity. The WS wasn’t taken as seriously as it might have been if most players had not gone of to fight WWI. (Where Braves played back then?????? I forget……)

Lee, being a Cub fan, there is no chance of me letting you off the hook and taking BB.

Michelle

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Re: Views of a 40-Something Confirmed Bachelor
Post by BLECH on Jan 26, 2005, 11:34am

She had sex with ANOTHER man while she was 6 months preggo? This is the PARAGON OF JERRY SPRINGER TRAILER TRASH…. I wonder if the father even knows what garbage he mated with.
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Re: Views of a 40-Something Confirmed Bachelor
Post by Lee on Jan 27, 2005, 10:38pm

Quote: Lee- Do you have any recent links regarding the sponge coming back on the market?

Sure. Here it is.
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Re: Views of a 40-Something Confirmed Bachelor
Post by Cub Fan single mom on Jan 27, 2005, 11:12pm

Excerpt from “press release”

“Contraceptive Sponge Near U.S. Return”
April 1, 2004
(AP) TRENTON, N.J.
Marisa Dawson is delighted to say she has had many “spongeworthy” moments in the year since the Today birth-control sponge came back onto the market by way of Canada. ” I’m in heaven,” said Dawson, an Ocoee, Fla., nurse who been buying boxes regularly from a Web site because the product cannot legally be sold in this country yet.

” Today Sponge goes on sale again”
CNN.com/Health
March 5, 2003
New Jersey (AP) — The long wait is over for fans of the Today Sponge contraceptive: It’s back on sale again, eight years after its sudden demise was immortalized in a hilarious “Seinfeld” episode that coined the term “spongeworthy.”

“Sponge Worthy Again”
CNNfn
December 27, 2000: 1:43 p.m. ET
NEW YORK (CNNfn) – The Today Sponge contraceptive, memorialized in an episode of the “Seinfeld” sitcom when it was pulled from the market in 1995, could return to pharmacy shelves next year, the manufacturer said Wednesday.

” Allendale To Re-release Contraceptive Sponges”
Forbes.com
August 30, 2000
Buying the sponge from American Home Products may have been a great deal. Allendale got the rights not only to an FDA-approved product, but to the machines used to produce it. After the inspection, all it has to do is run the sponge presses. ” In the 12 years that it was sold, the sponge was used a quarter of a billion times, and since it was withdrawn from the market nothing has replaced it,” says Allendale Chief Executive Gene Detroyer.

I’ve been seeing these releases for almost 5 years. I’ll believe it when I see it……. Although it would be nice.
I still think it’s odd, it’s been approved for sale in Canada and not the states. Leads me to believe somethings up with the FDA.

M&J

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Re: Views of a 40-Something Confirmed Bachelor
Post by Cub Fan single mom on Jan 27, 2005, 11:23pm

I should add it would be nice for men to have additional forms of BC.

However, we all know the only way to be 100 percent certain a child will not be conceived is through abstinence or sterilization.
There is a difference between “accidentally” getting pregnant and carelessly getting pregnant. Bc does have failure rates. I’m adamantly against abortion, hence my being abstinent. Even if the sponge were available, I would not use it as my only form of bc.

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Re: Views of a 40-Something Confirmed Bachelor
Post by Simpson on Jan 28, 2005, 10:59am

Quote: There is a difference between “accidently” getting pregnant and carelessly getting pregnant.

Which do you think you did, Cub Fan?
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Re: Views of a 40-Something Confirmed Bachelor
Post by Lee on Jan 28, 2005, 5:06pm

Quote: I should add it would be nice for men to have additional forms of BC.

However, we all know the only way to be 100 percent certain a child will not be conceived is through abstinence or sterilization.
There is a difference between “accidentally” getting pregnant and carelessly getting pregnant. BC does have failure rates. I’m adamantly against abortion, hence my being abstinent. Even if the sponge were available, I would not use it as my only form of bc.

I’m sorry, but I don’t believe that many self-responsible adults can get ‘accidentally pregnant’ if they use BC correctly. I use condoms with spermicide, always. Even if I have had a few to drink. I always dispose of it and flush it down and watch it go away. I use condoms all the time, and I have had a vasectomy.

I am very careful, and I believe anyone else can be just as careful and get my results.

I believe that if someone does not wish to get pregnant, or get someone else pregnant, that they will take the steps to assure that this does not happen with 100% certainty. As a 43 year old man who has *never* gotten a woman ‘accidentally pregnant’, I think my results speak for themselves.

It is not ‘luck’. It is the result of sensible planning and execution.

If one is on The Pill, and gets pregnant, then take RU-486. If that doesn’t work then abort. If that is counter to ones beliefs then give up the child for adoption.

There is no reason to ‘accidentally get pregnant’, or to ‘accidentally become a mother’.

You could insist that all your partners use a condom and a spermicidal suppository, whilst you were using the diaphragm. No hormone-based BC to be seen. This would assure no ‘accidents’.
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Re: Views of a 40-Something Confirmed Bachelor
Post by The Author on Jan 29, 2005, 2:38am

You lost me at “spermicidal suppository”
Eeeeeeew.

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Re: Views of a 40-Something Confirmed Bachelor
Post by Tyhigs on Jan 29, 2005, 9:41pm

Lee, I have not had any children. I want to someday when I am around 45 with my 21 yr old southern/eastern european (future)bride.

I also have a problem reaching orgasm when using condoms.

I was thinking of insisting women use spermicidal foam in addition to the pill without the use of condoms, if we are in a committed relationship (if such a thing truly exists).

What do you think?
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Re: Views of a 40-Something Confirmed Bachelor
Post by Lee on Jan 30, 2005, 12:26am

Quote: Lee, I have not had any children. I want to someday when I am around 45 with my 21 yr old southern/eastern european (future)bride.

I also have a problem reaching orgasm when using condoms.

I was thinking of insisting women use spermicidal foam in addition to the pill without the use of condoms, if we are in a committed relationship (if such a thing truly exists).

What do you think?

You can take her to the doctor and have her get the depo-provera shot. Go in the room. Watch the doctor give her the shot with your own eyes. Use spermicidal gel/sheets/suppositories when you have sex. Have her take the shot every 3 months, like clockwork.

To be doubly sure, use a condom lubricated with spermicide and forego orgasms for a time. Better to be safe than risk parenthood for a bit of convenience and pleasure.

One other tip: never tell any woman ever that you have trouble orgasming with a condom on. Never do this. Rest assured this will open you up to her claiming she is protected, and then ‘forgetting her pill’ one night when the two of you are out of spermicide and she ‘just happens to be in the mood and spontaneous’ and the drug store is too far or closed or she just has to have you ‘right now’.
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Re: Views of a 40-Something Confirmed Bachelor
Post by Tyhigs on Jan 31, 2005, 1:39pm

I was thinking about this before. I was wondering if insisting that the woman insert a diaphragm each time we have sex is practical.

If I did want to go to the doctor with her, would this be seen as not finding the woman trustworthy? or being an abuser? or something like that?
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Re: Views of a 40-Something Confirmed Bachelor
Post by Lee on Feb 1, 2005, 12:44am

Quote: I was thinking about this before. I was wondering if insisting that the woman insert a diaphragm each time we have sex is practical.

If I did want to go to the doctor with her, would this be seen as not finding the woman trustworthy? or being an abuser? or something like that?

I have dated women who used diaphragms. She just gets up, goes to the bathroom, and puts it in. You can tell that it is there, you can feel it.

If you want her to get a shot, just go with her, offer your support, hold her hand. If she doesn’t want you in the room, then pay for the procedure yourself, and get a receipt and confirm it with the admin.

“So what am I paying for, exactly?…”
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Re: Views of a 40-Something Confirmed Bachelor
Post by The Author on Feb 1, 2005, 7:54pm

> would this be seen as not finding the woman trustworthy? or being an abuser? or something like that?

Today…, men can probably be considered “abusive” for simply asking the woman to flush the toilet when she’s done. (ie: controlling demanding behavior)

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Written by dontmarry

May 2, 2007 at 2:27 pm

23 Responses

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  1. You have missed out on more than you have the mental capacity to understand. Good luck with your money and your toys because it seems that material things are all you have the ability to understand. It is people like you that are so self centered that waste the air that people who actually care about their community should have available to breathe. Since you have no ties I guess when you get old and sick and then die no one will really have to waste tears either. Win Win situation.

    LitleT

    June 23, 2010 at 6:32 pm

  2. @LitleT….We will all get sick die, and that is inevitable….whether we with someone or not.

    stu stifler

    December 3, 2010 at 1:18 pm

    • And do you think I care if nob nobody sheds a tear…I’ll be dead for goodness sake.

      stu stifler

      December 3, 2010 at 1:21 pm

  3. I have dating this 52 year old guy for 8 months and i am 28, I have never been these happy in my life so i thought maybe this is what meant for me and then yesterday i decided to move in he completely back up and told me he told me many times he is single for all his life and has problem and never wanted to live with anyone .he told me he def enjoy time with me but he couldnt do marriage thing is just not for him ,i feel hurt and foolish and hanging on a string ,i could simply get myself a husband if i wanted to move on but it is really hard to leave a “perfect relationship” …….i hate myself for being this stupid i wish i read this earlier

    sad

    February 18, 2011 at 8:38 am

  4. Being a 25 year old female (who is humble but has been told by a multitude of men that I am more than moderately attractive) I would have had fewer problems dating an older man had I not read this thread. I don’t think this is helping any single man over 30 by being available online and although I’m all for free speech, it would be better for all single men of all ages if this were not available to women like me to read.

    Jessica

    April 3, 2011 at 8:55 pm

  5. Money and and dating random women is a temp fix, wow material things….I have dated older men who spoiled me, when you are wrinkled and old they sure dont look at you as a person anymore… You get what you give, they will use you for your money because thats all you have…You get what you give! Be alone then.

    TINA

    August 13, 2012 at 6:27 pm

  6. Stumbled on this page while on a random web search..,wow, now I know why I am still single! If men think like this, what chance is there for the good girls?
    Myself; long thick blond hair, size six dress, C cup perfect breasts (natural) , small waist, work out every other day, blue eyes, 135 IQ(not genius, not stupid, great conversationalist), have my own money and lots of it from years in property development (glorified house flipping) ,high cheekbones, work in charity, love dogs, great with kids, sexually submissive , fantastic cook and I have sex drive out the roof and give such a mean bj I’ve had boyfriends call me ten years later to tell me they remember when..from a good family, great table manners, world travelled and speak five languages. Oh, I’m sure you were wondering, I just hit forty. before you get any ideas about my appeal to the opposite sex from that number, most guys guess me around 8-10 years younger and my last lover, 27 years old, left his 22 year old “hot” blond girlfriend to be with me.
    Also, I love men who take charge and I love it and appreciate every single chivalrous act a man has every done for me. And I have NEVER, EVER been supported by a man. And five men have asked me to marry them, but I have not married.SO what’s “wrong” with me?
    At the end of the day, sorry guys, but most of you have been so royally fucked up by your feminist mothers and by pop culture , and by women who fuck you on the first date and by the gold digger women you find in cities like LA or ATlanta or NYC or anywhere else in the world women like that find men like you who are vulnerable and have weak egos with much need for reinforcement ,that most of you have absolutely ZERO idea how to treat a woman, how to talk to a woman, how to protect and take care of a woman (in the ways that have nothing to do with finances) . Men of my grandfather’s generation still had their own balls, they saw a woman they liked, they pursued her, asked her to marry them, and they weren’t afraid to be men with the women they loved, weren’t afraid to stand up for her, Now you all stand around whining and playing games, getting what you think you want immediately from these idiot women willing to give it, and building walls around yourself so thick you’ll never again find your ass from your elbow.

    And please keep dreaming about dating 32 year olds when you’re sixty five. Women don’t find men in their sixties attractive unless they are themselves within ten years of that age range, or the woman in question is looking for a payoff. If you think otherwise and continue to play out this farcical philosophy of yours you will find only heartbreak. 30- 40 year old women like making love, a lot, and 65 year olds just can’t get it up any more , baby. Not without mother’s little helper.

    So, en tout cas, thank you for all your candor, makes me happier about having escaped the lot of you.

    c

    August 22, 2012 at 1:37 pm

  7. “they weren’t afraid to be men with the women they loved, weren’t afraid to stand up for her””………..we don’t have to stand up for women………..the American/Canadian women of today are “MEN”…….interesting poll at the top of the page…”Are you on a Marriage Strike?”….78% of respondents voted “YES”….Go figure!

    Calvin

    September 27, 2012 at 11:38 am

  8. This is quite the article.As usual,it seems that the men are getting the bad rap again.Let me explain what is seriously missing in this article as relating to myself. I am 47,single,MBA own several businesses and I am a self-made millionaire.I have no desire to marry at all! Same goes for most of my friends and business associates.
    At least 50% of marriages end in divorce and 85% of the divorces are initiated by the woman.If I got married today I would have to put up half my house(which is paid for)….No way! I would also have to put up half of other assets such as bank accounts,businesses etc..etc….No way! This is a joke!
    If I get divorced I will have to sell my house(which I paid for) and give the “Femi-Nazi” half the money.I will also have to pay her lawyer bill and I will be required to give her a monthly “Welfare-Mony” check as well as having her lien on “future earnings” because,I have to maintain her “standard of living”????..No way! What kind of a deal is this? I am a businessman….and I know a VERY bad deal when I see one!
    Marriage is down by 50% in the last decade.In fact,a “Marriage Strike” is in full swing! Men have gotten smart.They have seen other men raked over the coals in the Femi-Nazi dominated Family Court and they want nothing to do with it.Can you blame them? I constantly warn younger men to avoid getting married and get robbed for everything that they own!! 40 + years of Femi-Nazism has taken it’s toll…and it looks good on the women!…and they can live with it!

    Calvin

    September 27, 2012 at 11:42 am

    • There’s such a thing as a pre-nup, If you’re afraid that things could awry in the future. If the other spouse won’t sign, then you don’t marry him/her.

      AnonyMouse

      September 27, 2012 at 1:27 pm

      • Educate yourself Woman.

        http://www.legalhelpmate.com/news/prenuptial-agreement-news-5.aspx

        But surely in many american states Prenup is a useless TISSUE PAPER because if a women testified that she was forced there is nothing a man can do :D so you see AnonyMouse you are byfar telling men to pull the trigger but put a pillow on the muzzle of the gun so that you won’t feel the pain when the LOVE OF YOUR LIFE presses the trigger. :D its a great analogy NO!.

        Please leave this site because this site is all about NOT MARRYING, grasp that or get lost :D and it is mostly directed at Men and Teenage boys so yah Your responses are irrelevant to the discussion.

        Gamerp4

        September 27, 2012 at 2:30 pm

        • That’s funny, because you’re married, gamer ( saw that you stated this in a previous post someplace here.)

          I find that incredibly funny, and ironic that a MARRIED man would tell other men to not marry. Getting divorced soon? Sorry that you tied the knot?

          Hope you had a pre-nup :)

          AnonyMouse

          September 27, 2012 at 3:09 pm

          • Sigh…. hmmmp…. You have a SHARP observation but if you read ALL of my comments then you might know that MY WIFE is not from the feminist state or any other western feminist country (You wouldn’t have missed that) and guess what is good about her YAH SHE IS NOT A SLUT, and if you have read and investigated more you would have known that i advocated Marriage Outside of Western Countries, Totally Shunning One’s self from Western Women.

            If you had a deeper look into my comments i also stated that i was burned by the poison of western women A.K.A Feminist Cunts which is why i know how tasteless the marriage pill is when you do it with an average American or Western women, not only i tasted the sourness i beard it myself and my soul bears the marks from it, So obviously I am advocating my life experiences with the YOUNG LADS here, what i had in life, I dont want them to bear it, I dont want their souls to be scorched by the poison i endured nor i want them to feel the pain of shattered family which will surely come because it is a norm in western countries, 80% of marriages end in biased family courts and 90% of the time THE MEN endures the pain and suffering from it, My father was 1 of those Men, still I LOVE HIM and my mother well i fucking care less if she died tomorrow.

            Gamerp4

            September 27, 2012 at 4:04 pm

            • Yep, I saw that your wife is from Egypt. I never called her a slut, let’s get that straight and clear.

              Well, you could say that I was burned by some American men and it took me 10 years to get over it. However, I don’t hate all Americans. There’s some scum here, sure,male and female, but you gotta look at the person as an individual and judge them accordingly. I’m just very cautious now, when it concerns American men. But I won’t hate them as a group. That’s just stupid.

              AnonyMouse

              September 27, 2012 at 5:00 pm

              • Well is the notion of DON’T MARRY seems the problem to you? or is the idea of me advocating single lifestyle to young lads here, I dont hate Americans too but that doesn’t mean that my life experiences and other life ruined infront of me are irrelevant and shouldn’t be taken into account, surely the figure of 70% divorces initiated by women is not a JOKE, it just says that majority of Western women are not good for committed relationship, You say that you were burned by MEN well YOU’R just getting what your dumb sister ‘s wanted, every action has a possible and affirmative reaction and in this case every action has a bad reaction, MEN GETTING BURNED in return THEY DO THE SAME TO THE WOMEN, i was one of those playboys that went from clubs to clubs and saw my friend and family destoryed by narcissistic women, and there is a majority of them in western countries (You cannot just say man TO MAN UP that is preposterous).

                You see that is why i said i am a misogynist because every women that visit this site think that MEN HERE HATE WOMEN, well if a man don’t want commitment HE IS NOT HATING WOMEN, if a man wants to have a single lifestyle HE IS NOT HATING WOMEN, if a man wants no marriage HE IS NOT HATING WOMEN, and if a man advocates shunning WESTERN WOMEN HE IS NOT HATING WOMEN, is that hard to grasp? I dont think so, If you were burned by men YOUR 1 example of a woman BUT there are thousands of men who are still catering to their wounds that were crafted by women. As i said you reap what you sow, so please dont advocate marriage vows here NOBODY CARES ABOUT MARRIAGE especially to western women.

                Gamerp4

                September 27, 2012 at 5:25 pm

                • “”the figure of 70% divorces initiated by women is not a JOKE, it just says that majority of Western women are not good for committed relationship””……………………..Another interesting statistic……….83% of women in North America who have money obtained it from becoming a widow…or divorcing…Go figure! Modern Femi-Nazism at it’s best! Haven’t you ever heard the cunts say….”the first marriage is for money….the second for love”… Every time I hear this I would like to punch the loser cunt in the mouth.Anything that can rob you of at least half of everything that you have worked for is to be considered extremely EVIL and to be avoided at all costs! Anything that bleeds for 5 days and does not die?…cannot be trusted! Sport-Fuck them…but,DO NOT get involved with the loser cunts!

                  Calvin

                  September 27, 2012 at 7:31 pm

  9. If you are going to read one book this decade…..this is book! If you have a low opinion of women now…wait until you read this book….you will run from them like the plague they are!
    http://www.protectionformen.com/

    Calvin

    October 4, 2012 at 8:05 pm

  10. If you are going to read one book this decade…..this is the book! If you have a low opinion of women now…wait until you read this book….you will run from them like the plague!
    http://www.protectionformen.com/

    Mark

    October 14, 2012 at 2:06 pm

  11. Live your life and ignore the haters. How anyone can reduce this to being about money and games is a mystery to me. Marriage is the worst institution ever cooked up by man and women suffer just as much if not more than men. But the people who really suffer in marriage are children. Why does marriage not work because it is living a lie. There is no security in love, love insurance does not work. Marriage started as institution for men to monopolize a woman as a reproductive resource. Marriage is supposed to reduce risk nowadays it hardly performs that function but reducing risk reduces chances for personal growth. Live and love in the moment. The only thing you know for certain about the future is that it will not be as you imagined it to be. Ladies please grow out of this Barbie and Ken fantasy you have been spoon fed since birth. Relationships come and mostly also go, no piece of paper is going to change that.

    Spock

    May 21, 2013 at 5:46 pm

  12. What happened to Lee?

    just turned 40

    October 8, 2013 at 11:05 pm

    • Anonymous

      October 9, 2013 at 2:13 am

    • Lee is in hell. His wife killed him after she read all of these non sense. Ha Egyptian women don’t put up with the crap American women do.. and she ate his money too. Lee must be very mad but can’t do nothing from hell.
      Love when married men tell others what to do. Like this mentally ill person can be reasonable.

      Go fuck yourself and your money

      November 20, 2013 at 12:50 pm

  13. And Lee went to hell where he belongs…. As for his wife she got his money and is dating a young men. What goes around comes around. Lee was just another mental case.

    Go fuck yourself and your money

    November 20, 2013 at 12:47 pm


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